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So when you find a wand, a staff, or other charged item, said item is seldom new and fully charged. I don't see Identify telling you how charged a wand is the way it will tell you what spell is in it... so, is there a way to know how many charges you have left in such an item?
I've not known many PF DMs, but none of them would include the number of charges among the "properties" of the item... If that's the case, I wanted it told by experts so I have something to argue from... or make my own rulings when I decide to get to the other side of the screen.
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I can't find an explicit rule reference for you. But over here it's standard practice by all GMs to give the number of charges.
Given that there doesn't seem to exist any other way to determine the number of charges on an item (except trying until its empty), I think counting it as "identifiable property" makes a lot of sense.
Also, you're using detect magic - it makes sense that as the item runs out of charges, its aura would become a bit fainter, so that you can observe how much is remaining by comparing the intensity of the aura to the amount you'd need for the functions the item has.
It's possible some GMs have rules holdover from older editions where identifying magic items was quite hard (requiring 100GP+ components). In PF it's fairly easy, and I think that makes sense. The amount of effort it takes to identify an item should be related to how common items are, and in PF magic items are fairly common.
Ok, thanks... and you're likely right about holdovers, as I'm an old gamer and play within my age bracket.
There is analyze dweomer: "In the case of a magic item, you learn its functions (including any curse effects), how to activate its functions (if appropriate), and how many charges are left (if it uses charges)".
6th level and a very expensive spell. So a spellcraft check (enhanced or not with identify) should not allow anyone to know the real number of charges left.
But it's easier for a GM if players know and manage their charged items ;)
Prices listed are always for fully charged items. (When an item is created, it is fully charged.) For an item that's worthless when its charges run out (which is the case for almost all charged items), the value of the partially used item is proportional to the number of charges left. For an item that has usefulness in addition to its charges, only part of the item's value is based on the number of charges left.
Since the price varies depending on number of charges, the number of charges in the item must be determinable somehow by the characters. Since there isn't a separate way of doing it, it would seem to fall under the normal item identification rules.
There is analyze dweomer: "In the case of a magic item, you learn its functions (including any curse effects), how to activate its functions (if appropriate), and how many charges are left (if it uses charges)".
6th level and a very expensive spell. So a spellcraft check (enhanced or not with identify) should not allow anyone to know the real number of charges left.
That wording is the same as 3.5 D&D. In 3.5 D&D, Identify also specifically said it revealed the number of charges. Standard identification in Pathfinder should still reveal that (and still does - having charges is a property of the item).
OK... So it has to be Analyze Dweomer, costly as it is.
But this is the rules section of the messageboards and "identify" - as written for Pathfinder, not for D&D - cannot do what we all make it do (for an easy gm-living), unless *we agree* that properties include the number of charges left. Common law vs civil law? :P
Imho there are two choices:
1) let the players know with a spellcraft check; they will keep count of every charge left and every price all over the world will always be fair [speed up the game];
2) only analyze dweomer is able to tell the exact number of charges left; so "beware the merchants" and buy at your own risk or go to a respectable arcanist / crafter whose prices are fair (and equipment refundable) [rpg mode]
Just don't let the rules kill the fun ;)
I'm quite sure that nowhere in the rules there is an equivalence between properties and charges, because it's self evident (XD) or because spellcraft isn't able to tell you that (and analyze dweomer is there to do that). I think it should be a decision made by the GM to add or take off verisimilitude to the play (and rpg hooks).
For example:
I've found a stick with runes. Nice!
Let's appraise.
/appraise
It seems a magic wand.
Well, time to detect its magics.
/detect magic
Ok, it's magic, but with a very faint aura. What kind of magic does it hide?
/knowledge arcana
I know now: conjuring school! Mh.. But what may I conjure whit that?
I need to check better and identify the strange properties of this old wand
/identify + spellcraft
What?! A wand to summon rats?! Are you kiddin' me, Nethys?!
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That's the way I see it ^^ If our Mr Mage is more experienced, he can one afternoon sit at the table, put on his ruby lens and decide to test all the magical items hoarded in years to see if their aura-dweomer can tell him more about other properties & stuff. And finally discover that the wand of summon minor monsters has 15 charges left and it's pure [----].
A lot of rp opportunities (and a more uncertain market of magical items on Golarion)
For example:
I've found a stick with runes. Nice!
Let's appraise.
I
/appraiseIt seems a magic wand.
Well, time to detect its magics./detect magic
Ok, it's magic, but with a very faint aura. What kind of magic does it hide?
/knowledge arcana
I know now: conjuring school! Mh.. But what may I conjure whit that?
I need to check better and identify the strange properties of this old wand/identify + spellcraft
What?! A wand to summon rats?! Are you kiddin' me, Nethys?!
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That's the way I see it ^^ If our Mr Mage is more experienced, he can one afternoon sit at the table, put on his ruby lens and decide to test all the magical items hoarded in years to see if their aura-dweomer can tell him more about other properties & stuff. And finally discover that the wand of summon minor monsters has 15 charges left and it's pure [----].
A lot of rp opportunities (and a more uncertain market of magical items on Golarion)
I see it this way:
I've found a stick with runes. Nice!/detect magic
Ok, it's magic, but with a very faint aura. What kind of magic does it hide?
/identify + spellcraft
What?! A wand to summon rats?! Are you kiddin' me, Nethys?!
/appraise
The wand costs 225gp, only 15 charges left.
then again, is a number of charges a magical property?
I do notice that AD specifies that it gives the number of charges, as well as warn about curses etc, while Identify, or the Spellcraft description make no such mentions at all... maybe charges are too subtle an attribute to be perceptible with a low level spell?
Honestly, I don't think the rules cover it except for the spell that was mentioned. I just tell them because it is easier for me and the players.
For PFS, analyze dweomer may be the only option from a rules perspective.
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If you want to be stupid RAW pedantic about it, you can still get the number of charges by combining Spellcraft and Appraise.
Spellcraft can tell you what the item does. In the case of a wand, when you know the spell level and caster level, you can compute the cost per charge. (15 * spell level * caster level)
Appraise lets you determine the value of an item, exactly, on a DC 20 (common items) or 25 ("particularly rare or exotic items"). Wands should be somewhere in between those.
So then you compute AppraisedValue / CostPerCharge = NumberOfCharges.
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I still believe that the number of remaining charges of an item is an item property that you would identify normally. I think the text in Analyze Dweomer is vestigial 3.x crap that's not in line with the easier identification procedure in PF.
Having had experience with a number of battery-powered technological devices that have notably inaccurate self-identification of how much charge they have, and finding it easier to figure out what such devices do than figuring out how much charge is in them, it seems not entirely unreasonable that an ordinary Identify spell might have trouble figuring out the exact number of charges on a charged magic device . . . .
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I would permit Spellcraft to identify an estimate on charges (full or nearly so, moderate, nearly drained), and rely on Analyze Dweomer to figure out exact precision.
And, unrelated...
And finally discover that the wand of summon minor monsters has 15 charges left and it's pure [----].
This means that before the party found it, this wand of rats was already used thirty five times! I guess it might not be as useless as it seems...
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I really cannot think of a good reason to withhold charges from the players, it is definitely justifiably covered by 'properties'.
Unless you really are one of those "yay! let's roleplay a shopping trip" types...