Help with Gestalt Wizard Sorcerer


Advice


Hello ! I'm making a Wizard/Sorcerer for a Gestalt game.
Starting level 3. One Archetype permitted per class.

My stats before racials:
Str 10
Dex 16
Con 14
Int 16
Wis 12
Cha 13

I will be the party's battlefield controller and utility caster.

1. Race: I want the human racial AFC for more spells so this leaves me with Human or admittedly Half Elf. Assuming half elf can get them which is better ?

2. Wizard Archetype: For sorc I'm taking Wildblooded - Sage bloodline for INT based casting.
For wiz I'm taking the Conjuration (Teleportation) school and I'm torn between Exploiter Wizard and Pact Wizard (Haunted Heroes Handbook version)

Exploiter Wizard - Give up arcane bond and school power and extra spell slots for quick study to be able to get whatever spell I need in a full round action. Later take dimensional slide/potent magic/counterspell

Pact Wizard - Give up Scribe Scroll and bonus feats for effortless magic (prepare in spell I need in 1 min), always prepared witch patron spells (Boundaries for just-in-case defenses or Time for haste, teleport, disintegrate) and later on crazy bonuses to initative/caster level checks/saves.

Which would you recommend ?


Neither. Playing with Archetypes for fun...

Swap your Dexterity for Wisdom and roll with
Cleric (Avatar)/Sorcerer (Wildblooded)

With Avatar you get to nab a second domain at level 4.

Sorceror Bloodline Draconic with a Linnorm mutation

You run these until level 4 to get the second domain, and it's effects. Then you switch to...

Mystical Theurge/Dragon Disciple

Popping in random classes of Cleric/Sorc to get new spells.


We have a blaster sorcerer and cleric/bard already so this is a little off what I was planning and most of the bonuses would be lost on me.

Plan is to be a "god" or "batman" wizard. In combat use grease, create pit, enlarge and such, and out of combat things like mount/teleport/fly etc.

With the basic wiz/sorc chassis which race archetype would you recommend for this?


Wizard//Sorcerer is a really weak gestalt combination. You get very little useful over a normal wizard or sorcerer and even less over an arcanist. For comparison that cleric//bard, bad as his stat needs are, can stack divine favor with inspire courage to fight better, has no weak save, and has access to two different spell lists. And it's still a weak gestalt because the evangelist archetype does most of what it does.

Instead, pick one arcane full caster and mix with a durability boosting class.

Wizard goes great with Alchemist. Cognatogen will boost your save DCs and bombs will give you a fallback option for when your preparation is inappropriate to the task at hand. The grease bomb, entangle bomb, smoke bomb, and any discovery that has smoke bomb as a prerequisite will serve you well as a controller wizard. And you're less squishy and have no weak save. Arcanist will also do well in this combination and give you pretty much everything you were getting from wizard//sorcerer

Occultist is another option with wizard or arcanist, giving spells with psychic components and spontaneous casting.

Sorcerer is weaker in gestalt with paladin being the only really good complement, though if you change your casting stat the wizard friendly classes will work or if you switch to wisdom the unchained monk is an extremely strong survivability boost.


The main reason to take sorcerer would be to get some weird (probably wildblooded or crossblooded) bloodline arcana and/or bloodline powers. Sage sorcerer adds basically nothing to a wizard in gestalt.

e.g. Sylvan wildblooded for an animal companion, or crossblooded fey & serpentine to compel many creatures (which might fit your battlefield control ambitions), or crossblooded rakshasa/psychic for sneakiness.


Cleric avatar? Never heard of that archtype. Where is it from?


Look into a Magus/Sorceror.


Thanks for your input guys.
Two things worth mentionning is 1 class must be a core class.
The other is that we have 3 Fighter types, so the abilities of a magus are seen as redundunt compared to additional spell slot.

With Wizard/Sorcerer what I was hoping to achieve was a large number of spells per day, using sorcererslots for combat spells I know I'll be casting a lot, and wizard spells or open slots for specific spells or utility.


Declindgrunt wrote:
Cleric avatar? Never heard of that archtype. Where is it from?

Here. Without knowing if 3rd party is allowed though, bringing it up might not matter. Well, that and it's terrible.

Especially with the Mystic Theurge suggestion. That class wasn't allowed in the original Gestalt rules, especially not as a single "side" of Gestalt.


Artaron Nox wrote:

Thanks for your input guys.

Two things worth mentionning is 1 class must be a core class.
The other is that we have 3 Fighter types, so the abilities of a magus are seen as redundunt compared to additional spell slot.

With Wizard/Sorcerer what I was hoping to achieve was a large number of spells per day, using sorcererslots for combat spells I know I'll be casting a lot, and wizard spells or open slots for specific spells or utility.

Conjuration wizard as the one core class sounds sensible. I would stick with the un-archetyped wizard, you can get the Fast Study arcane discovery if filling an empty slot in 1 minute rather than 15 will make a difference, and spontaneous casting of one spell per spell level is less useful than you'd think IME.

But rather than Sage sorcerer would you consider the occultist? They're naturally int-based casters and as 6-level casters they get a bunch of other class abilities. Some of those can directly aid the casting of a gestalt wizard, some make up for the lower number of spells of an occultist compared to a full caster. Plus of course you're getting a second good save and d8 rather than d6 HP.


Artaron Nox wrote:

Thanks for your input guys.

Two things worth mentionning is 1 class must be a core class.
The other is that we have 3 Fighter types, so the abilities of a magus are seen as redundunt compared to additional spell slot.

With Wizard/Sorcerer what I was hoping to achieve was a large number of spells per day, using sorcererslots for combat spells I know I'll be casting a lot, and wizard spells or open slots for specific spells or utility.

You're gonna find very quickly that you just have too many spell slots and most of em won't even get used on a daily basis. I reiterate what many have said, is that you want a class that augments your weak saves (fort/will) and toughens you up (d10ish HD ideally, but d8 is okay). While not all the martial abilities are gonna be terribly useful if you want to spellcast first and foremost, it's still a better idea than wasting one side of your caster/caster stuff fully.

Honestly, consider ranger as an option. It gives you a small divine list to play from, but shores up most of your weaknesses, and a bow and arrow will serve you well as a backup (or even primary) weapon for the first few levels until you're all set.

Also gives you 6 + int skill points and trapping if you grab the urban ranger archetype (you dont give up stuff you'll miss much). The community bond is a nice boost to init and skills you might want to use, like say, perception, which is now a class skill thanks to taking a proper complementary class :)

As for archetypes, I'd still do without on the wizard end. Just my opinion


If you want to be a dedicated spellcaster, how about Wizard // Alchemist? You could use Cognatogens instead of Mutagens, and pass out your Alchemist spell slots to party members as Infusions.

If you don't mind a little fighting ability, how about Eldritch Archer Magus with the Wizard? Might as well shoot off some arrows basically for free, at the same time as you're casting things.

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