Are there ways for a Crane style monk to keep up in damage, or are they stuck with high AC and no actual killing ability?
My current level 1 monk can put out 9.2 damage using flurry and crane style, and only gets hit on an 18 when attacked by a CR 1 creature's low attack, which I'm happy with, but I'm concerned with not keeping up in damage at later levels. I've seen instances of Crane builds that were simply avoided by enemies because the monk didn't do enough damage to threaten anything.
Dragon style pumps the damage up, and monks already get AC boosts so the Crane bonuses may just be overkill. I'm not looking to one-shot monsters, my goal is to do ~50% of a CR-equivalent creature's hp in a round, considering chance to hit and crit bonuses. I'm running a front-line melee character, that should be acheivable.
TL;DR I think Crane style is cool, but would switching to Dragon work better in the long run?
Here's the skinny:
- Jabbing Style has the highest potential output, but has the most prerequisite feats and is the more susceptible to attack penalties (or bonuses!)
- Dragon Style has the least prereqs and has comparable damage to Jabbing Style, though not higher.
If you read my guide, which I hope you have, you'll see that both the Jabbing and the Dragon builds posted as samples keep themselves above 50% chance to be hit by a CR(Level+2) enemy, which I consider to be the "hard to be hit" bracket.
Crane Style, conversely, has a lower output because of a single reason: Crane Wing requires a free hand to function. This means that you cannot 2H while Crane Riposting. If this were an option, it would be a much more viable style.
That is not to say it's unviable. The smartest way to go about it, in my opinion, would be to take all the increased damage options out there. These include:
- Elemental Fury for extra damage
- Possessed Hand feat for extra accuracy and damage with your fist
- Weapon Focus to compensate for accuracy further
- Belier's Bite for extra bleed damage
And yes, I'd also see about picking up Dragon Style + Ferocity + Combat Style Master. For this reason, I think the Scaled Fist archetype is pretty good as it allows you to pick up Dragon Style painlessly. (Another cute think about Scaled Fist -- you can get the Osyluth Guile feat to add 2x your CHA to AC! Gotta love those typed dodge bonuses)
Plz no Pummeling Style. You already avoid most DR, you got Flying Kick.
Leave it to the Brawlers.
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Are there ways for a Crane style monk to keep up in damage, or are they stuck with high AC and no actual killing ability?
My current level 1 monk can put out 9.2 damage using flurry and crane style, and only gets hit on an 18 when attacked by a CR 1 creature's low attack, which I'm happy with, but I'm concerned with not keeping up in damage at later levels. I've seen instances of Crane builds that were simply avoided by enemies because the monk didn't do enough damage to threaten anything.
Dragon style pumps the damage up, and monks already get AC boosts so the Crane bonuses may just be overkill. I'm not looking to one-shot monsters, my goal is to do ~50% of a CR-equivalent creature's hp in a round, considering chance to hit and crit bonuses. I'm running a front-line melee character, that should be acheivable.
TL;DR I think Crane style is cool, but would switching to Dragon work better in the long run?
I use Dragon Style with my Unchained Monk/Bloodrager to nice effect ("big damage" without the one-shot let-down. But, I chose it primarily because of the character concept (will hopefully one day become a Dragon Disciple, so Dragon Style seems 'walking the path').
My suggestion is to go with what best fits with your character concept :)
Dragon Style.
Crane Style is s!+~.
The three-section staff could work, but would prevent using Crane Wing and Riposte. Right now I have a nine-section whip which has the same blocking property as the staff but is one-handed. Foot Stomp is a good idea, the bonuses from Crane Style add to my CMD to escape it as well. Power Attack would increase my damage, but Crane Style already lowers my accuracy so I want to get other boosts first.
Should I pick up Stand Still? I think tanking with Crane Style might work if the Combat Maneuver isn't too difficult to pull off. Can weapon enhancement bonuses be applied to that check?
After doing a Foot Stomp, does the Combat Manuever attempt to escape provoke AoO? If so, could Stand Still be used as my AoO?
The only other style I'm interested in is Dragon, the boosted Elemental Fist uses and save bonuses seem cool. Crane Style is my number one preference, but I want to make sure I can still benefit the party.
As I said before, Crane Style's biggest weakness is that all it gives until level 9 is AC, which is not a problem for the Monk. After level 9 it gives extra attacks, but with the attack penalty of fighting defensively...
I honestly think it's mostly a waste unless you have a ton of extra damage through your party and build. I'd prefer to use Snake Style for a defensive Style.
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As I said before, Crane Style's biggest weakness is that all it gives until level 9 is AC, which is not a problem for the Monk. After level 9 it gives extra attacks, but with the attack penalty of fighting defensively...
Well, Crane Riposte is accessible to a Monk by level 7, at which point a -1 penalty for fighting defensively is pretty inconsequential. I don't think there are many melee characters out there that would consider a huge AC bonus to be superfluous.
Personally I like Crane with a sword that's fluidly switched between 1 and 2 hands as needed. If you're mostly weapon-based, then Dragon Style isn't really in the picture anyhow. Crane Style is also pretty perfectly matched with the new Stylish Riposte Weapon Trick that specifically exploits high-AC no-shield combat; it works out that a miss that's too low to trigger Crane Riposte will trigger Stylish Riposte.
Overall though, my favorite combo for a Monk is probably taking one level of Crusader Cleric of Shizuru to gain Gentle Rest, and then taking Crusader's Flurry, Domain Strike: Gentle Rest, and Medusa's Wrath with the level 10 bonus feat. Drop Gentle Rest stagger with an unarmed strike to trigger Medusa's Wrath, then clean up with two-handed katana attacks.
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I'm not really a fan of multi-classing, just personal preference. Medusa's Wrath is definitely going in, and Weapon Trick is neat. Is there any feat or other thing that forces or otherwise encourages enemies to attack you?
At least the Unchained Monk's full BAB makes fighting defensively less of a terrible idea.
Shaitan Style/Skin is very powerful, kills enemy mobility, and is another way to self-trigger Medusa's Wrath... but without being able to use retraining it's a pretty high-level thing due to Elemental Fist prerequisites.
You can always weave multiple styles together with Combat Style Master, but it tends to end up being very feat-intensive.