Mostly i was wondering if anyone had any thought on Toth from the Mallorean but it thought it would be cool if someone felt like posting other characters from there too of course magic works drastically different in the series then form pathfinder but most of the characters seem like straight forward dnd/pf characters.
Belgarion : magus
Durnik: npc class artisan?
Balgarath : sorcerer (suggestion for bloodline im thinking just arcane but if there is something wolf feeling all for it.) or maybe druid fits for all the followers of aldur
Polgara : same as belgarath and pretty much all the other bels
Silk: unchained rogue (cuz hes off the hook)
Barak: fighter with lycanthropy or maybe the new moon-cursed barbarian archetype.
Lelldorin: figther archer <easy>
Mandorallen: Cavalier <duh my personal favorite not sure what order fits him best but if it gives him + vrs fear kudos.>
Hettar: horse lord ranger?
Ce'Nedra: npc noble
Relg: some sort of monk or cleric? really not sure on this one
Toth: if there was a body guard monk archetype that with a high strength score
Sadi: is there a poisoner alchemist archetype?
Velvet maybe rogue assassin or maybe ranger (shes awful good with that snake.)
what do you guys think?
Most of these are pretty good. I'd give Durnik levels of fighter and sorcerer/druid, and Ce'Nedra should have levels of rogue.
rogue for ce'nedra you think? maybe bard but i wouldn't say rogue. I could see durnik having some sorcerer as far as the second series goes but i think just high level artisan gives him all he needs for occasionally hitting people on the head and being super skillfull
now that i think about it maybe just noble with high charisma and perform oratory and diplomacy also half dryad ofcourse.
Mostly i was wondering if anyone had any thought on Toth from the Mallorean but it thought it would be cool if someone felt like posting other characters from there too of course magic works drastically different in the series then form pathfinder but most of the characters seem like straight forward dnd/pf characters.
Belgarion : magus
Durnik: npc class artisan?
Balgarath : sorcerer (suggestion for bloodline im thinking just arcane but if there is something wolf feeling all for it.) or maybe druid fits for all the followers of aldur
Polgara : same as belgarath and pretty much all the other bels
Silk: unchained rogue (cuz hes off the hook)
Barak: fighter with lycanthropy or maybe the new moon-cursed barbarian archetype.
Lelldorin: figther archer <easy>
Mandorallen: Cavalier <duh my personal favorite not sure what order fits him best but if it gives him + vrs fear kudos.>
Hettar: horse lord ranger?
Ce'Nedra: npc noble
Relg: some sort of monk or cleric? really not sure on this one
Toth: if there was a body guard monk archetype that with a high strength score
Sadi: is there a poisoner alchemist archetype?
Velvet maybe rogue assassin or maybe ranger (shes awful good with that snake.)what do you guys think?
If I remember my Eddings correctly, Mandorallen was all about the high ideals of chivalry but not the brightest bulb so a less impressive Int with a cavalier order stressing chivalry in the classic sense?
What are you going to do with Relg's race? Duergar? Dwarf? Svirfnelbin?
Sorcerer fits Pol, Belgarath and even Belgarion very well, although I get the whole Magus thing. Maybe the shapechange is a magical item instead of a class ability?
Ce'Nedra needs something to indicate "half-dryad". Could do that with feats/traits that give her bonuses regarding fey.
Barbarian feels better than fighter for Barak.
Belgarion should be magus, but with mythic tiers. Child of light and all that.
I feel like ultimate intrigue should have a good social archetype for C'nedra, like wit bard or dandy ranger, maybe with variant multiclassing for the dryad feel, or just a well chosen spell selection.
I think a poison focused investigator would be better for Sadi. No explosions or shapeshifting from the alchemist class, but a lot of social skill expertise, maybe even the majordomo archetype from UI.
I think Horror Adventures has a mooncursed barbarian that can actually become a bear for Barak.
Zakath...is probably a multiclassed mess. Maybe a skill based rogue that picks up a level of fighter late for weapon armor proficiency (early he is just sneak attacking with a cestus, but he learns how to use a lance and heavy armor later).
I need to think about this some more, and maybe reread everything, like I need an excuse...
yeah i didn't even want to attempt Zakath. but yeah prolly multi-class rogue fighter or maybe swashbuckler he does talk about fencing and parry lances.
I think for relg's race maybe just give them alternate racials for low-light and maybe the dwarf thing that lets you know how deep you are. I'm feeling monk for him but still not sure on specifics or how to do his rock tricks.
Well the reason i'm thinking druid for the bels+pol it a lot of their spells are on the druid list (call lighting, control weather, flame strike(ish),) then give them all the domain option to get some of the spells there missing like scrying for pol, shatter for Garion (can't remember if its on list or not), durnik seems to have some transmute stuff, plus they all can shape change and they seem to do that more often then straight spells so thats whay druid was tempting me.
I agree with the mythic ranks for Belgarion but I was thinking he might get them from the Orb of Aldur have the orb bestow them or you know just bump up all his stuff as there going out. also as far as shape shifting i think theirs a thing to let a magus grab some spells that aren't normally on there list if i'm not mistaken.
CeNedra just doesn't feel like pc class to me since she doesn't do combat at all and her real claim to fame is her talking people into things which just needs high charisma (probably give her a big bump with half-dryad) oh and she can talk to trees which could be thrown on with dryad
The major-domo investigator is a good idea for him.
Thanks for all the suggestions people!
Sadi was a rogue, zero question, probably the Poisoner.
CeNedra is an Aristocrat.
Relg is some an Earth Sorcerer.
Barak was a Barbarian. He even mentions he's gone Berserk before. He wasn't a lycanthrope in Pathfinder terms even if he did turn into a bear.
Velvet is a rogue, probably Spy archetype, just like Silk. Zith was a domesticated snake to begin with.
Durnik is just an Expert.
Most characters in the books don't fit well into Pathfinder classes, though. Especially anything with magic. You've got:
Sorcerers using Will and the Word. Uber flexible but depends on strength of will and knowledge, and all the main sorcerers in the books are exceptionally good sorcerers. It's basically psionics.
Demon summoners. No special talent like Sorcerers required, just knowledge, a strong will to keep the demon under control, and massive disregard for personal safety. Basically nothing but Planar Binding.
Witches. Implied to be dealing with spirits to perform magic. These are probably the closest to Pathfinder style magic (probably sorcerer).
There were also other small practitioners of strangeness - the blind seer Marje(?) and the alchemy shenanegans, and I'm probably leaving something out.
you know your probably right about psionics it definitely handles a lot more like psionics im ok with them being somehwere around a sorcerer druid psionicist I don't think relg is a sorcerer at all its more like a KI ability doing pass wall and then some higher level effect for the submerge release trick (shudder) maybe kineticist
yeah i think mooncursed barbarian or just regular barbarian were bear is where i'm at with barak.
durnik agreed (until mallorean then he levels in whatever caster class it is)
blind seer = Oracle!
Sadi can probably work as several diffrent classes really but im digging the majordomo idea with a emphasis on poison.
so toth monk high str score pretty well accepted?
Toth's just a really strong dude. He didn't really do anything exceptionally monk-like that I could recall, he just didn't wear armor and carried only a staff(?).
Monk only fits for the whole 'no armor' part. If Pathfinder had a viable no-armor fighter archetype I'd go with that. Probably some kind of body-guard archetype or prestige class.
Brawler for Toth, or maybe a brutal pugilist barb.
The Mary and Gary Stus of Eddings works are generally best treated as gods... pretty much beyond stats, given what the setting makes the characters capable of. (there really isn't a Pathfinder ability that can make a character alter the weather on the entire world... or split it apart.) When the Prophecy calls upon a given character to do their THING, they're essentially unstoppable, so there isn't a reason to stat that out.
The Mary and Gary Stus of Eddings works are generally best treated as gods... pretty much beyond stats, given what the setting makes the characters capable of. (there really isn't a Pathfinder ability that can make a character alter the weather on the entire world... or split it apart.) When the Prophecy calls upon a given character to do their THING, they're essentially unstoppable, so there isn't a reason to stat that out.
Its a good point still its easy enough to make a character based on them and really high level character compared to average soldiers and villagers will seem like gods. (the weather thing to me is more of a side effect of using control weather and honestly kind of makes sense more so then p/f's version and to be fair ripping the world apart was a god using the Orb and I would say the orb is a mythic greater legendary artifact.) but darn it i can still have fun thinking about what class
also he may not actually be a monk but it would be the funnest way to play him since you could take vow of silence but brawler might actually be the better way to go. he was also somewhat telepathic but that was a racial thing.
The Mary and Gary Stus of Eddings works are generally best treated as gods... pretty much beyond stats, given what the setting makes the characters capable of.
This is true of most written characters. Eddings made nods in the direction of random chance (and the books are all about having to fix something that went very wrong a very long time ago), but very few writers write as if their characters could die at any time to misfortune (no, not even in Game of Thrones, he just has fewer characters with plot armor than normal, and is willing to expand on characters that don't have plot armor).
yeah GOT to me just seems like a blatant literary trick to make you feel as though a character you like is in real danger (reminds me of the final destination movies character could die at any point horribly and unexpectedly.) I feel more so that it closes doors when it used to often now you know longer have that avenue to go down also why am i hearing about this character then if he died and that was the end of it.
The reasoning for me is if the main character dies before doing anything why make the story about them if the hero is going to lose and the universe be destroyed what was the point of following the character in the first place.
The way I see it all the disciples of Aldur are Mythic characters following the Archmage path. They all have Wild Arcana to allow them to cast any spell they need. They all also took the path ability Perfect Preparation. Wizard is probably the class that best fits them, although arguments could be made for Arcanist.
Belgarion is a fighter2/ Wizard8/Eldritch Knight 10. His magic is just too powerful for a Magus.
Silk is a ninja. Some of his abilities like the changing of his face could be custom ki abilities
Durnic was an expert in the first series, but retrained the levels to wizard in the second series
Barak is a Barbarian
Hettar is a ranger
Mandorallen is a cavalier
Lelldorin is a fighter
Sadi and Velvet are probably unchained rogues.
Ce’Nedra is an Aristocrat with a few levels of druid.
Relg could be an inquisitor
Toth is probably a ranger.
While it can be a good thought exercise/theory crafting to imagine characters from The Belgariad, it is pretty much unplayable unless you stick strictly to the lower levels. Prophecy/Necessity are pretty much the ultimate railroad that sits on your head and says 'GO THIS WAY!'. While some series can disguise it well with some sleight of hand, the forces that be have manipulated everything towards one event with even teeny random characters being placed just so(The soldier who heckled Ce'Nedra at her speech for example.)
Ce'Nedra tries to make a speech but begins to stumble
Soldier stands up and heckles her
Ce'Nedra is offended and completes her speech and rallies the troops
Polgara said the Prophecy takes no chances and the soldier was born for that role.
But there is no random chance. Ce'Nedra was going to give the speech no matter what in that exact way. Soldier or no.
Another in The Mallorean. Garion and Ce'Nedra's son Geran is stolen even though the Procphecy told Garion to 'Guard his child'. But in order for everything to turn out the way it did, Geran had to be kidnapped. The only difference between guarding and not guarding would be a bunch of dead palace guards.
well i didn't want to perfectly recreate them so much as have characters based on them (kind of like when movies say based on a true story) but yes obviously the spell-casting system is quite a bit diffrent.
i could maybe see relg as inquistor but why toth as a ranger?
hettar for real favored enemy murgos.
good call on belgarion being a eldritch knight
i don't think c'nedra needs druid levels i fel haveing her be hlaf-dryad covers it.
silk as ninja is interesting but his prof are all off isn't there a rogue archtype to get you ki? or wait thats a vigilante archtype for the stalker right?
actually vigilante stalker might be even better for silk take thousand faces (or w/e its called.)
I might go with a human stone oracle for Relg myself.
And yeah, Mythic wizards or witches for the major magic-using characters. Start off with the powers that lets a character memorize their spells without books or a familiar and lets them cast without material components, then Longevity and just make up one that lets a magic user transform into an animal as a druid does.
Toth was primarily a guide and protector. He seemed to have decent wilderness skills. The Witchgaurd archetype seems to fit. If I remember correctly he also used a quarterstaff as his weapon. The ranger combat style would allow for him to use two weapon fighting with a quarter staff without having to have a high DEX. STR was obviously his primary stat. While the ranger’s spells don’t exactly fit he did come from a race noted for its use of magic. It is not a perfect fit, but seems reasonable close.
For the magic that does not quite fit like the shape changing you have a couple of way to cover this. As I suggested all the disciples are mythic characters. A couple of mythic path abilities and feats will cover much of their abilities. You could also create a custom wizard archetype. Swap out the wizards school powers for wild shape. Also as far as I know all the disciples of Aldur have an amulet. Since Ce’Nedra’s amulet is magic it would make sense that the other are also magic. Use this as their wizard’s arcane bond. This would allow them to enchant it as a magic item. Since they are all also mythic it could even be a legendary item for even more power.
The spell-casters should have Wis-based DCs, but bonus spells or power points based on Con. After all, Beldin says that it was all he could do to walk the next day after first trans-locating rocks and Polgara literally knocks herself out with her magic at one of the great Event battles.
Longevity is a side-effect of being a true caster in the Eddings world(s) and I believe it's linked to how powerful you are. (It also crops up again in Elenium/Tamuli with Sephrenia et al.)
Longevity is a side-effect of being a true caster in the Eddings world(s) and I believe it's linked to how powerful you are. (It also crops up again in Elenium/Tamuli with Sephrenia et al.)
AFAIK it's linked to being a true wizard, which are very rare in the Belgarad and Mallorean - as in no more than a dozen or so. Remember that Eddings was drawing heavily from Tolkien and one of the things he borrowed was the idea that true wizards were not common at all.
All other spellcasters were very low level. Say something like max 6th level spells at most.
As I recall, the immortals were in total: Belsambar, Belmakor, Belkira, Beltira, Belgarath, Beldin, Poledra, Polgara, Belgarion (presumed), Beldurnik (presumed), Belzedar/Zedar, Ctuchik, Orvin, Senji (the Mallorean alchemist) and Chamdar/Asharak. The last two weren't direct disciples of Aldur or Torak and Senji's longevity (along with his magic) seems to have developed spontaneously.
Eddings noted in The Rivan Codex that the council of Grolim high priests are true sorcerers, but not nearly as powerful as the various disciples and they can live for up to 1000 years. It's been years since I last read the books, but I assume that Chamdar was one of those.
I'm thinking its safe to say that the Gods (typically Aldur or Torak) gave each one of them their semi-immortality right?
The exception being Senji how the heck or does literally the presence of spell-casting give immortality period.
I'm thinking its safe to say that the Gods (typically Aldur or Torak) gave each one of them their semi-immortality right?
The exception being Senji how the heck or does literally the presence of spell-casting give immortality period.
It does. tW&tW confers immortality on its practitioners. There would be a lot more running around except that they eventually violate the rules by wishing something out of existence, and blow themselves up. Disciples have an advantage in that they are taught all of the rules. Senji is unique in that he made it that long without accidentally blowing himself up.
Whilst spell-casters do get old, it seems to be mostly cosmetic. Belgarath notes that they seem to age to however old they think they should be and then no more.
The Grolims in Angarak who can cast spells have been taught to do so by Zedar or Ctuchik, so it would certainly seem to be something that can be passed on, as well as developed innately.
Poledra is mentioned as living for over a thousand years before first taking on owl form and then human form, so unless Aldur was playing around behind the scenes, magic is not even restricted to humans.
Eddings said that the ESP craze in the '70s gave him the idea for mind-based magic, especially as he didn't want to use incantations or the like.
"the will and the word" is known to be teachable and to arise spontaneously (usually terminally) . You'll remember the ''bel's' discussed it with Senji. He taught it for a while, but student's either couldn't learn it or disappeared. As it usually manifests at times of great emotion - usually frustration - they theorised most peoples first use was "be not", and that always turns out well.
Also I believe the Dals had practitioners of TWATW if I recall.
I'd go with druids, just because it most closely resembles the nature of their magic (shape changing, weather control etc.). If I really wanted to get fancy, make them spontaneous casters with spells known and spells/day as a sorceror/oracle and tweak some of the class abilities.
Shape-shifting, telekinesis and minor creation, certainly, but weather control is something they're not supposed to do, given that it mucks up the world's natural systems. Illusions and other forms of mind control crop up a lot too.
Shape-shifting, telekinesis and minor creation, certainly, but weather control is something they're not supposed to do, given that it mucks up the world's natural systems. Illusions and other forms of mind control crop up a lot too.
The will and the word is largely instinctive. The studying required is to learn how to use their abilities without destroying themselves or the world around them. Belgarion is forbidden to mess with the weather because he hasn't studied the knock on effects of small changes. Weather control isn't actually forbidden in and of itself.
Polgara is extremely cross when Durnik scoots a rain cloud away from errand, for example as she had spent some time nurturing it for her garden.
Hmmm! Idle thought to represent the will and the word, and I'm not usually one for extensive homebrewing, what if you take an aether kineticist base strip out the blasts and infusions, add in wildshape as a druid a level earlier, (maybe no elemental or plant forms) and expand on the utility powers...
Gives the at-will powers, shapechanging and weakening yourself if you 'over-cast'.
I think the Psion might come a little closer then most of the traditional casters but they do seem very druid ish too. probbaly would have to make up a class for them or hybrid druid and sorcerer. Works closer to White wolfs Mage the ascension mages really.