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Was considering the option of playing a character that eventually could be Diminutive as long as he please.
What would be some advantages and disadvantages to this?
(Acquired through Eternal potion.)
Is the character to small to be attackked or grabbed by some of the larger monsters for instance?(or can they still make their ordinary rolls? )
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The initial obvious boost is the increased ac(due to size)
Access to holes, cracks and pathways normally restricted from larger folk.
Interesting options for gaining scouting information(why can't you hide in the walls and listen in on conversations done by the cult.)
Exploiting smaller weak points for massive damage can cause a lot of fatalities(like a direct slash stab to the throat of a larger foe)
Can hide IN a fair number of containers.
Able to directly mess with some mechanical traps(because i can get access to the mechanism)
Harder to notice therefore easier sneaking.
And yes, probably too small for some creatures to grapple(unless you get nat 20'd, then you really are in trouble.)
Downsides include increased threat from creatures of a larger than you. Diminutive swarms and fine swarms are fairly large groups that can risk doing some great mischief.
Damage on you is scaled up/health possessed scales down.
Perfect size for predatory creatures to swallow whole(Even if they don't have swallow whole mechanically, creatures at least 2-3 sizes larger than you can(and if your talking most of the bestiary will try) to eat you alive. your generally the size of a mouse for relative scale, and there are a good number of things that eat mice).
Without flight, you are going to be fairly slow.
Most things are bigger than you, so you might need to climb over things like armour, chairs, counter tops etc.
Can Drown in smaller bodies of liquid(like a medium or larger sized tankard).
Harder to Notice therefore can very easily get stepped on or mistaken for pests(ever been hit by a huge or larger sized broom?, that's you with small, medium or large scale creatures). If you do get hit by a gargantuan or larger creature, your dead to rights(tarraque blow) vs mouse= a barely recognizable stain(unless you have abilities to auto stabilise, then you are only MOSTLY a stain on the ground).
So you mentioned eternal potion, what spell are you using?
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Im Not sure, all i know is that its probably involving some seriously strong shrinking spell effects(because unless they were already small, mythic reduce person only causes a drop of 2 size catagories, and i believe it can't normally be stacked with regular reduce person.) I imagine he has a plan to make this work, since otherwise i'm not sure what Azullius's plan is.
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I'm Not sure, all i know is that its probably involving some seriously strong shrinking spell effects(because unless they were already small, mythic reduce person only causes a drop of 2 size catagories, and i believe it can't normally be stacked with regular reduce person.) I imagine he has a plan to make this work, since otherwise i'm not sure what Azullius's plan is.
Keep in mind that armor and shield bonuses are halved for diminutive and smaller creatures. If you want to go melee, a class with an unarmored AC bonus is best.
The best way to take advantage would be a class with magical attacks that don't depend on size, like a kineticist or alchemist.
my first thought was beast shape 3, but don't potions only go up to third level?
If the OP actually wants to build a character that makes itself diminutive then I can provide some meaningful advice. (like a druid)
Right now I have nothing to go off of.
The rules don't prevent the tarrasque from stomping on your tiny character or a giant kraken grappling you. And I'd like to see the players with oversized martial characters when you tell them they cannot hit a real tiny opponent anymore :)
Being diminutive is a disadvantage, and we have not yet opened the can of worms that is labeled "equipment (enchanted)".
The rules don't prevent the tarrasque from stomping on your tiny character or a giant kraken grappling you. And I'd like to see the players with oversized martial characters when you tell them they cannot hit a real tiny opponent anymore :)
Being diminutive is a disadvantage, and we have not yet opened the can of worms that is labeled "equipment (enchanted)".
Depends on how you got to be that size. A druid using wild shape to become diminutive gains AC, to hit, and damage for the change.
A halfling druid with risky striker would love it. It also stacks with PA.
Higher AC, higher bonuses to hit, higher dex (usually being smaller increases your dex).
Lower damage, easier to grapple (and do any combat maneuvers against), lower strength (usually).
I would highly suggest something like a ring of freedom of movement to keep things from simply grabbing you.
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Thanks for the many replies and explanations, I can see however I made a mistake assuming extracts counted as potions.
Which limits me to the option of permanently Tiny Sized.
Do Tiny Creatures receive AC penalties to armor and shield or was it just from diminutive?
atm looking at my damage at low lvls changing from small to Tiny might actually make my damage get better.
Change it from 1d4+4 to 1d3+5, give me extra ac an stealth granted I'm more at risk from aoo and cmb rolls.
Is it generally a bad idea to become smaller in pf or do you have to get flight if you go small?
don't forget, smaller than small have to enter the enemies square and provoke to attack normally
don't forget, smaller than small have to enter the enemies square and provoke to attack normally
diminutive monks with panther style FTW
Thanks for the many replies and explanations, I can see however I made a mistake assuming extracts counted as potions.
Which limits me to the option of permanently Tiny Sized.
Do Tiny Creatures receive AC penalties to armor and shield or was it just from diminutive?atm looking at my damage at low lvls changing from small to Tiny might actually make my damage get better.
Change it from 1d4+4 to 1d3+5, give me extra ac an stealth granted I'm more at risk from aoo and cmb rolls.Is it generally a bad idea to become smaller in pf or do you have to get flight if you go small?
the alchemist discovery you were talking about was pretty high level, any reason you can't be a high level druid instead? You can get diminutive that way starting at 8th.