Likely because all the previous stuff set in Tian Xia didn't sell well enough.Something set in Tian Xia again please. I don't understand why it is so regularly ignored.
Do you have some sort of program running alerting you everytime someone mentions Tian Xia?
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It was confirmed by devs few times over on the boards.Is that true that Tian Xia sells less or speculation?
Well, then those devs should spend some time and ressources in creating products that make Tian Xia a more attractive setting to play in.
Both the Primer and the Gazetteer are nice products for a quick overview but compare the information we have on Inner Sea countries like Cheliax or Varisia with what we have on, let's say Minkai, from those sources alone and there really isn't much there.
It's easy for a GM to develop an affection for Varisia after reading through Birthplace of Legends with over 30 pages of in depth information on one country. For Minkai we have the bare minimum on information needed to play Jade Regent and that's it. Not even plot hooks for homegrown campaigns.
So while, I think the interest might be there, the products so far need to be improved
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It was confirmed by devs few times over on the boards.Is that true that Tian Xia sells less or speculation?
Well, then those devs should spend some time and ressources in creating products that make Tian Xia a more attractive setting to play in.
Both the Primer and the Gazetteer are nice products for a quick overview but compare the information we have on Inner Sea countries like Cheliax or Varisia with what we have on, let's say Minkai, from those sources alone and there really isn't much there.
It's easy for a GM to develop an affection for Varisia after reading through Birthplace of Legends with over 30 pages of in depth information on one country. For Minkai we have the bare minimum on information needed to play Jade Regent and that's it. Not even plot hooks for homegrown campaigns.
So while, I think the interest might be there, the products so far need to be improved
*blink*
*blink*
The Primer and Gazetteer and Jade regent were the products to see if people were interested, just like the original run of products for Golarion (in 3.5 and Pathfinder) came before the Chronicles Campaign Setting/Inner Sea World Guide. Varisia, Birthplace of Legends came waaaaaaaaaaaaaay after Goalrion was well established.
Those things they made were awesome, they still didn't sell enough. "Well this didn't sell so we're going to make a partnering product and hope it sells" isn't a really good business strategy.
So that's why they've been trying different strategies (like the recent Distant Shores) to hopefully better results.
It was confirmed by devs few times over on the boards.Is that true that Tian Xia sells less or speculation?
Well, then those devs should spend some time and ressources in creating products that make Tian Xia a more attractive setting to play in.
Both the Primer and the Gazetteer are nice products for a quick overview but compare the information we have on Inner Sea countries like Cheliax or Varisia with what we have on, let's say Minkai, from those sources alone and there really isn't much there.
It's easy for a GM to develop an affection for Varisia after reading through Birthplace of Legends with over 30 pages of in depth information on one country. For Minkai we have the bare minimum on information needed to play Jade Regent and that's it. Not even plot hooks for homegrown campaigns.
So while, I think the interest might be there, the products so far need to be improved*blink*
*blink*
The Primer and Gazetteer and Jade regent were the products to see if people were interested, just like the original run of products for Golarion (in 3.5 and Pathfinder) came before the Chronicles Campaign Setting/Inner Sea World Guide. Varisia, Birthplace of Legends came waaaaaaaaaaaaaay after Goalrion was well established.
Those things they made were awesome, they still didn't sell enough. "Well this didn't sell so we're going to make a partnering product and hope it sells" isn't a really good business strategy.
So that's why they've been trying different strategies (like the recent Distant Shores) to hopefully better results.
And my point is, they would have been more successful if they were more than just a short overview over a continent. there is simply not enough content in it to be of any interest
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And my point is, they would have been more successful if they were more than just a short overview over a continent. there is simply not enough content in it to be of any interestIt was confirmed by devs few times over on the boards.Is that true that Tian Xia sells less or speculation?
Well, then those devs should spend some time and ressources in creating products that make Tian Xia a more attractive setting to play in.
Both the Primer and the Gazetteer are nice products for a quick overview but compare the information we have on Inner Sea countries like Cheliax or Varisia with what we have on, let's say Minkai, from those sources alone and there really isn't much there.
It's easy for a GM to develop an affection for Varisia after reading through Birthplace of Legends with over 30 pages of in depth information on one country. For Minkai we have the bare minimum on information needed to play Jade Regent and that's it. Not even plot hooks for homegrown campaigns.
So while, I think the interest might be there, the products so far need to be improved*blink*
*blink*
The Primer and Gazetteer and Jade regent were the products to see if people were interested, just like the original run of products for Golarion (in 3.5 and Pathfinder) came before the Chronicles Campaign Setting/Inner Sea World Guide. Varisia, Birthplace of Legends came waaaaaaaaaaaaaay after Goalrion was well established.
Those things they made were awesome, they still didn't sell enough. "Well this didn't sell so we're going to make a partnering product and hope it sells" isn't a really good business strategy.
So that's why they've been trying different strategies (like the recent Distant Shores) to hopefully better results.
Which we had in the two products and a whole AP. It didn't sell. They're may have been other products lined up, but when the ones that were out didn't sell/didn't generate enough hype on the forums they probably decided not to put them out since they probably wouldn't have sold. If something isn't selling you don't put more of it out, that's the sunk cost fallacy.
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It doesn't help that at least half of the AP wasn't even in Tian Xia. Plus there wasn't that many Asian type monsters, class options, etc. at that time. Not that the Ninja and Samurai have gotten a lot of love since them.
Creative Director
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We can't make every book for every person. We have to make choices, based on the combination of what we think folks want to see, what WE want to see and create, and what makes financial sense, and what makes for good support for other products.
I understand that means that some folks will have their favorite portion of the world feel underdeveloped or even ignored, but it's not because we have some nefarious plan to distress you, trust me.
While it hasn't made sense for a while to do a huge product devoted solely to Tian Xia, for a combination of ALL four reasons listed above, we HAVE been taking pains to include Tian Xia content here and there in products when we can. Horror Realms had some. Occult Realms had some. Distant Shores had some. Book of the Damned had some. We'll try to continue adding more bits and pieces where we can as well, but again... we can't make every book for every person.
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We can't make every book for every person. We have to make choices, based on the combination of what we think folks want to see, what WE want to see and create, and what makes financial sense, and what makes for good support for other products.
I understand that means that some folks will have their favorite portion of the world feel underdeveloped or even ignored, but it's not because we have some nefarious plan to distress you, trust me.
While it hasn't made sense for a while to do a huge product devoted solely to Tian Xia, for a combination of ALL four reasons listed above, we HAVE been taking pains to include Tian Xia content here and there in products when we can. Horror Realms had some. Occult Realms had some. Distant Shores had some. Book of the Damned had some. We'll try to continue adding more bits and pieces where we can as well, but again... we can't make every book for every person.
And we greatly appreciate those breadcrumbs ^w^
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It is nice to at least get some crumbs, eventually you get enough to make a whole bread, cracker, cookie, etc.;)
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Just to note, its not really that helpful to be like "Well the thing you want won't happen anyway" since I think reason they keep bringing it up is because they know devs read message board and want them to know that at least someone wants it.
Anyhoo, I do think it would be nice if they tasted waters with another Tian Xia product, but I have no clue how badly previous tian xia products sold
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I agree with CorvusMask here, that instant message anything TianXia is not going to happen because some books already some time ago now didn´t sell that well and assumedly the greater populace did decide TianXia is no good, aren´t really helpful.
Time has gone by, there are new things and a lot of new people came to the game. And some like TianXia and express it here, that´s only fair and doesn´t need to be dejected.
While i´m not entirely convinced there isn´t some conspiracy or at least some nefarious faction driving it´s own agenda, all the things TianXia that came out were really, really good and are highly appreciated.
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I agree with CorvusMask here, that instant message anything TianXia is not going to happen because some books already some time ago now didn´t sell that well and assumedly the greater populace did decide TianXia is no good, aren´t really helpful.
Time has gone by, there are new things and a lot of new people came to the game. And some like TianXia and express it here, that´s only fair and doesn´t need to be dejected.While i´m not entirely convinced there isn´t some conspiracy or at least some nefarious faction driving it´s own agenda, all the things TianXia that came out were really, really good and are highly appreciated.
I definitely think people should advocate for what they like. In this case though, Gorbacz’s posts were answering a genuine query:
Something set in Tian Xia again please. I don't understand why it is so regularly ignored.
It’s reasonable to give newcomers answers, since otherwise it might look like an inexplicable choice (especially for those who weren’t here during the similar stage of the Inner Sea’s development).
I agree that we shouldn’t shout down people who just want to express how much they like Tian Xia. It’s deflating to post “I love this!” and continually be met with answers of “I don’t”.
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I’d like to see a level one module there. I’m less keen on an entire AP, but it’d be a nice break from the Inner Sea (and presumably be less worldbuilding work now than the first one was or one on a new continent).
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Really excited about the Return of the Runelords!
I'd love to see something that lets us see Hermea. Not as a whole AP necessarily but as part of it. It looks like a philosophical utopia crossed with a scary personality cult.
Otherwise I would love something with Qadira done really well, Arabian Nights style (Legacy of Fire didn't really manage it)
I also would love an Absalom AP - so many opportunities to explore.
A Mwangi AP in the wilderness.
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I don't buy the modules anyone, I would prefer some more player companion and campaign setting books for Tian Xia. Actually I would prefer some hardcover book love for Tian Xia even if partially in a world Guide book to Golarion or splat book with an Asian theme or multi-cultural theme. But I am not holding my breath for such products.
So what is the best selling AP to date?
I'd like More Pirates.
To be fair, Forest Of Spirits sold so well so people could use the cheaper Jingasa Of The Fortunate Soldier.
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Thanks Chris Lambertz.
There´s still people on the board regularly claiming that something didn´t sell well and someone from Paizo said something about it (which may or may not have happened, who knows. And also who cares what might have been said years ago).In my opinion this also falls into: "Offering conjecture about that information can be misleading to other fans or customers visiting our website.", only i would express it differently.
That said, i can only repeat that i would love to see a new Tian Xia AP.
With all the awesome experience Paizo gathered by now and all the awesome authors who joined, chances are it would likely be very good.
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Also, I was always very much for a Tian Xia AP. I just prefer that people know that isn't happening because sales, not because "Paizo hates Eastern stuff" or whaterver other reason hyper-invested people come up while trying to figure out why the stuff of their dreams isn't happening.
Gorbacz, i´m not arguing against you and i´m glad you´re pointing out that you were(?) for a Tian Xia AP.
I just try to point out how some things leave unanticipated impressions with other people.
That said i feel obliged to say how awesome it would be were there some mentions, traces, artifacts from Tian Xia in Starfinder, although that probably belongs to another forum.
A new Tian Xia AP could also have worked in that connection.
Is there? Would you mind pming me where i can find that? Or spoiler tag it here? If it´s not on the front cover, i missed it so far.
Well, i honestly didn´t read that entry because i thought it was something completely else. What made me remember that LaoShuPo is in Starfinder as well.
Something with the Golden Legion in Tian Xia would also make for some very interesting adventures in Pathfinder. PCs could (or should) be working for them!
My greatest wish continues to be an urban AP in Alkenstar.
Yes, that!
And...
Five Kings Mountains
Mwangi Expanse, Usaro and the Gorilla King!
Lastwall
a wild west themed AP would be fantastic. do it in alkenstar. you can have zombie cowboys from Geb, magic railroads, bizarre natives, and lots of fun stuff. and there's gold in them thar hills!
I'd take ten of each, thank you!
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Creative Director
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I am sad to read, maybe into the statements of James Jacobs, that there is no future for a Tian Xia AP. I really liked that setting.
I enjoy most of the APs so far so I am sure that whatever the direction the future takes for these, it will be fine even if not in Tian Xia.
Jade Regent was one of the adventure paths I'd been most excited to do, and by extension, to do a lot more with Tian Xia. Ameiko's story starts in the VERY FIRST Adventure Path, in Burnt Offerings, after all, and I had the seeds of Jade Regent in mind at that time.
I would LOVE there to be a future for a Tian Xia AP, or for more exploration into the setting. If there was anything to read into my statements, it should be that, and that I'm frustrated that we don't have more opportunities to do so, even if several of those opportunities are ones that I've negated on my own by, say, deciding to do an AP about demons or about robot gods or whatever.
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I am sad to read, maybe into the statements of James Jacobs, that there is no future for a Tian Xia AP. I really liked that setting.
I enjoy most of the APs so far so I am sure that whatever the direction the future takes for these, it will be fine even if not in Tian Xia.
Jade Regent was one of the adventure paths I'd been most excited to do, and by extension, to do a lot more with Tian Xia. Ameiko's story starts in the VERY FIRST Adventure Path, in Burnt Offerings, after all, and I had the seeds of Jade Regent in mind at that time.
I would LOVE there to be a future for a Tian Xia AP, or for more exploration into the setting. If there was anything to read into my statements, it should be that, and that I'm frustrated that we don't have more opportunities to do so, even if several of those opportunities are ones that I've negated on my own by, say, deciding to do an AP about demons or about robot gods or whatever.
Kaiju AP?
I would LOVE there to be a future for a Tian Xia AP, or for more exploration into the setting. If there was anything to read into my statements, it should be that, and that I'm frustrated that we don't have more opportunities to do so, even if several of those opportunities are ones that I've negated on my own by, say, deciding to do an AP about demons or about robot gods or whatever.
What's stopping you from deciding to do this (Tian Xia) instead of what comes after the Runelords return, or whatever is on deck already for after that? Shouldn't it be nearing time for another 'risky/concept' AP after the likely smash/traditional AP the new Runelords AP would be?
A Kaiju AP would be TOTALLY AWESOME!
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There are also several PFS scenarios set in Tian Xia. They could be raided for ideas or incorporated into a homebrew campaign if someone wanted to go that route.
They don't offer campaign setting levels of information on Tian Xia, and I'd love to see more of that myself, but for plot hooks and general information they can be very helpful.
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Creative Director
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I would LOVE there to be a future for a Tian Xia AP, or for more exploration into the setting. If there was anything to read into my statements, it should be that, and that I'm frustrated that we don't have more opportunities to do so, even if several of those opportunities are ones that I've negated on my own by, say, deciding to do an AP about demons or about robot gods or whatever.What's stopping you from deciding to do this (Tian Xia) instead of what comes after the Runelords return, or whatever is on deck already for after that? Shouldn't it be nearing time for another 'risky/concept' AP after the likely smash/traditional AP the new Runelords AP would be?
While I would love to do another Tian Xia AP, there are other stories as well that have had even less attention than Tian Xia, believe it or not. And I'm not the one who makes the final decisions anyway.
Recent technological advances in this thread (starting about here) have rekindled my interest in an Iron Horses AP.