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I get GM discretion, but wanting to know a steamlined(streamlined?) method of adding certain monstrous powers/features (and sometimes which ones) to a non-player character player race to convey there is muddling of the character's actually physiology or spirit (in this case spirit)
In this specific case, I want the result to be a Rakshasa who, in the cycle of reincarnation followed by reincarnation and so forth, he/it surprisingly reincarnated into a Samsaran, instead of a Rakshasa again, and that Samsaran retained more than just a few foggy memories.
I felt like the "Amalgam Creature" template could do the trick, but it feels less like a Rakshasa in a Samsaran's body with whatever evil powers can be called upon by the Rakshasa, and more like throwing a Rakshasa and a Samsaran into a blender and hitting the start button.
Any advice on better mixing-and-matching features and stats and stuff between monsters and playable races?
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You could just give a samsaran more HD, the rakshasas spells and detect thoughts, and some SR. Maybe also some ability score buffs if you felt like it.
I get GM discretion, but wanting to know a steamlined(streamlined?) method of adding certain monstrous powers/features (and sometimes which ones) to a non-player character player race to convey there is muddling of the character's actually physiology or spirit (in this case spirit)
In this specific case, I want the result to be a Rakshasa who, in the cycle of reincarnation followed by reincarnation and so forth, he/it surprisingly reincarnated into a Samsaran, instead of a Rakshasa again, and that Samsaran retained more than just a few foggy memories.
I felt like the "Amalgam Creature" template could do the trick, but it feels less like a Rakshasa in a Samsaran's body with whatever evil powers can be called upon by the Rakshasa, and more like throwing a Rakshasa and a Samsaran into a blender and hitting the start button.
Any advice on better mixing-and-matching features and stats and stuff between monsters and playable races?
The above two are pretty solid.
Also: Samsaran with Rakshasa sorcerer bloodline (maybe with continuous thought reading) up to the same caster level or whatever that the Rakshasa used to have; or the ARG (Advanced Race Guide) race builder - grant some ARG stuff to the Samsarran. Or both (eliminating redundant abilities). Or neither!
One idea is that the Rakshasa might be "stuck" as a Samsarran - putting a Reincarnating Druid's fifth level abilitty as a template could make for an interesting thing in regard to that (but the result is always "Samsarran" instead of a random roll). Also, I believe back in 3.X there was a half-Rakshasa template; I can't be sure.
A yeah, hope those help!
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That does help actually, thanks. But the description for Reincarnate says the STR, DEX, and CON depend partly on the new body..... how exactly?
Your racial bonuses to your physical scores are changed to those indicated by the chart.
Basically, if you always reincarnate as the same race, nothing but aging penalties are altered (aging penalties being erased, since you come back as a "young adult" body version).
So, for example, if you started as a kobold and reincarnated into a human, you'd be much stronger and tougher, but less dexterous; on the other hand, if you were an elf that reincarnated into being a goblin, youd lose some strength.
(There is an abnormality with humans: if you put their racial boon into a mental score and are later reincarnated, you get your racial boon to Constitution - effectively getting your racial boon twice, as your mental scores are unaffected by the spell; also, feat-grinding. But we're not dealing with humans, so nevermind.)
In your case, you'd replace the Ramshasa's physical scores with those of the Samsaran; and you'd keep the mental scores. (Note: this is only if the Rakshasa-Samsarran can remember it's old Rakshasa-life; if not, it gets all new mental scores like any new character would. The reincarnate spell explicitly lets you keep your old mind, however. Also; even if you're keeping the original scores, if you grant the creature class levels, they get ability increases for leveling up. These prooooooobably go into mental.)
As an aside, I've no idea, now, how "A yeah" got in there. Phone typing, one supposes.
Anyway, hope that helps, too!
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So... keep all the stats and just swap out the adjustments? So in this case, using the Rakshasa from the Bestiary reincarnated into a Samsaran, it'd have
STR 16 + 0 = 16
DEX 20 + 0 = 20
CON 22 - 2 = 20
INT 13 -> 13
WIS 13 -> 13
CHA 17 -> 17
Correct?
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To make this NPC as a level 1 Oracle and level it up to an appropriate level, what stats should come from the standard heroic NPC and which should come from the CR10 Rakshasa, and which of a Samsaran's racial ability score adjustments should apply?
Best case scenario looks like....
STR 14
DEX 13
CON 15 - 2 = 13
INT 13
WIS 13
CHA 17
Trying to follow a process that I can reliably duplicate.
Sort of.
I'm on a phone, so I've not been as loquacious as is my wont, but I'll try clarifying a bit. Apologies both in advance and retrospect for typos - I'm not great at phone spelling an crammed; it doesn't help that
Okay, so, opened up a free tab to do this...
More specifically, for you're talking about this one.
Monster racial scores are always presumed to be 10 (if even) or 11 (if odd) as-printed.
That means that a Rakshasa's racial modifiers are able to be directly inferred:
Str +6, Dex +10, Con +12, Int +2, Wis +2, Cha +6
Eliminating Rakshasa physical racials and replacing them with Samsarran physical racials means:
Str +0, Dex +0, Con -2, Int +2, Wis +2, Cha +6
A published Rakshasa is presumed to have 10s in physical scores and 11s in mental scores.
There are two different (if related) processes for granting class levels to a thing in PF. If it's a standard NPC, using the elite array, but adjust for racials. This is noted here.
This is 15, 14, 12, 11, 10, 8.
Then there is a straight up stat adjustment. This is similar to the elite array, but is slightly different (though it works out moderately similarly over-all, but is the stronger option): found here.
Basically a +4, +4, +2, +2, +0, and -2.
Now, I noticed you said "oracle" instead of "sorcerer" - are you thinking mystic theurge, completely alter Spellcasting from one to another, or something else?
Hope that helps!
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Actually... I'm even more confused. About presuming ability scores... If you're meaning what I think you are, you need to keep in mind it has 10 HD, so 1-2 scores have increased from the first HD, that at least should apply.
Actually... I'm even more confused. About presuming ability scores... If you're meaning what I think you are, you need to keep in mind it has 10 HD, so 1-2 scores have increased from the first HD, that at least should apply.
Believe it or not... it doesn't.
The way monsters are made is that hey are given arbitrary hit dice and arbitrary stats which, when combined with their abilities, "feel" like a CR (#) to the designer.
As a result, all monster abilitty scores printed in the Bestiaries are 10+racial (if even) or 11+racial (if odd): level/HD increases are universally ignored for monster scores until after their JD progresses beyond their base.
To step away from Rakshasa for a moment:
Nymph
Solar
Aboleth
Blue Dragon (specifically wyrmling)
Notice how, in all four cases, no matter what the creature type, no matter what their HD, no matter what the CR: the creatures have three even scores and three odd scores. This is because all monsters in the Bestiaries have stats formed the same way: 10-or11+racials (dragons also get age bonuses, which are different from HD increases).
(Certain kinds of creatures, like constructs, undead, and incorporeal creatures lack certain ability scores; and certain others, like animals, have explicit Intelligence limits; these rules, however, are not really part of the discussion on Rakshasa, and work to supplement the "10/11 presumption" rule we are talking about, anyway - looking at those creatures' stats, it seems the rule was followed there as well, just hidden by the missing scores.)
That is how we get the "racial adjustments" for a Rakshasa. None of its ability increases rely on its base monster HD: all of them are based on its racial modifiers. From then on, we ignore its physical stuff and replace that with a Samsarran physical stuff, as its body is Samsarran now.
So: weak and frail, lacking natural HD (maybe)*, and blue with normal-facing hands and a humanoid head.
*
Hope that helps!
Edit: also, sorry it took me a while to get back to you. Perusing on my phone means it's easy for things to slip through the cracks, and Ige been busy enough that when I do have time, I often forget to check anything but my most common haunts... and still run out of time, there, too!
Actually... I'm even more confused. About presuming ability scores... If you're meaning what I think you are, you need to keep in mind it has 10 HD, so 1-2 scores have increased from the first HD, that at least should apply.Believe it or not... it doesn't.
The way monsters are made is that hey are given arbitrary hit dice and arbitrary stats which, when combined with their abilities, "feel" like a CR (#) to the designer.
As a result, all monster abilitty scores printed in the Bestiaries are 10+racial (if even) or 11+racial (if odd): level/HD increases are universally ignored for monster scores until after their JD progresses beyond their base.
To step away from Rakshasa for a moment:
Nymph
Solar
Aboleth
Blue Dragon (specifically wyrmling)Notice how, in all four cases, no matter what the creature type, no matter what their HD, no matter what the CR: the creatures have three even scores and three odd scores. This is because all monsters in the Bestiaries have stats formed the same way: 10-or11+racials (dragons also get age bonuses, which are different from HD increases).
(Certain kinds of creatures, like constructs, undead, and incorporeal creatures lack certain ability scores; and certain others, like animals, have explicit Intelligence limits; these rules, however, are not really part of the discussion on Rakshasa, and work to supplement the "10/11 presumption" rule we are talking about, anyway - looking at those creatures' stats, it seems the rule was followed there as well, just hidden by the missing scores.)
That is how we get the "racial adjustments" for a Rakshasa. None of its ability increases rely on its base monster HD:...
What is a creature's "JD"? What does that stand for? Okay then, so, let me see if I'm following you. A Rakshasa (ignoring CR and HD) has the following stats:
STR 16
DEX 20
CON 22
INT 13
WIS 13
CHA 17
So going on the presumption that the scores started out as 10s and 11s, that leaves us with:
STR 10
DEX 10
CON 10
INT 11
WIS 11
CHA 11
So then that means Rakshasa get +6 STR, +10 DEX, +12 CON, +2 INT, +2 WIS, and +6 CHA. But what doesn't add up is that while being that high is fair for a 10 HD creature (but we're not counting HD) it doesn't at all follow the pattern of +2 ___ +2 ___ -2 ___ (nor +X ___ +Y ___ -Z ___ like some exceptions)
JD is a typo for HD. Sigh. Sorry!
So then that means Rakshasa get +6 STR, +10 DEX, +12 CON, +2 INT, +2 WIS, and +6 CHA. But what doesn't add up is that while being that high is fair for a 10 HD creature (but we're not counting HD) it doesn't at all follow the pattern of +2 ___ +2 ___ -2 ___ (nor +X ___ +Y ___ -Z ___ like some exceptions)
You are correct: it doesn't. But no "monsters" follow that pattern.
Monster abilities don't include: normal PC +/+/- scores (or equivalent), enhancement bonuses (from items), inherent bonuses (from books/wishes), or level-up bonuses (for 1/4 HD). Their scores are exclusively arbitrary based on what "feels" corrects to hit a set of specific numbers based on the CR chart - effectively, for monsters, CR is chosen Forst, then HD, then scores, and so on in order to line up "properly" with their CR. If they're given levels in a class, those three 10s/three 11s are then altered (either by replacing them with the elite array - 15/14/12/11/10/8 plus racials -, or altering them with +4/+4/+2/+2/+0/-2 from those original scores... this second usually turning them into 15/14/13/12/11/8 or something similar plus racials; if this part is confusing: ignore it).
But let's just say, as an example, a common rakshasa decides to become an oracle.
A GM has two (per RAW expectations) options for ability scores:
1) apply the elite array and increase on level-ups, plus magic items/enhancements
This the Rakshasa might go from 16, 20, 22, 13, 13, 17 [10, 10, 10, 11, 11, 11] to 16, 22, 20, 13, 16, 21 [10, 12, 8, 11, 14, 15] with his first level of oracle and proceed from there.
2) apply the ability score alteration method for ability scores:
This Rakshasa might go from 16, 20, 22, 13, 13, 17 [10, 10, 10, 11, 11, 11] to 18, 20, 22, 13, 17, 21 [10+2=12, 10-2=8, 10+2=12, 11+0=11, 11+4=15, 11+4=15] with his first level of oracle and proceed from there.
(Note: both are hypothetical examples, not ironclad "you must arrange the ability scores exactly as I did" things; feel free to tailor to taste.)
That said, we're already leaving RAW expectations behind a bit to do this thing anyway, so, as this seems confusing, I'd recommend ignoring it for right now.
Either way, your Samsarran is going to be weaker, trailer, and less dexterous than your Rakshasa. So long as you do that, there isn't really a "wrong" way of doing this - the examples pointed out are tools as a means to an end, not the only method.
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Tbh I was considering repurposing the effects of Magic Jar as reincarnation from a Rakshasa to a Samsaran, just give the Rakshasa Sorcerer levels (what source book explains what to do about giving a monster class levels and class-specific BAB and saves?) and transferring that to a Samsaran's body then just add a Samsaran's racial adjustments to the Rakshasa Sorcerer's mental scores and the Samsaran (Oracle's?) physical scores.
It says you (the Rakshasa) keeps its mental scores, level, class, BAB, and saves, and alignment, then what happens to the Samsaran's level, class, BAB, saves, alignment, and mental scores? Gone? In this case? For my purposes, just take a LE Rakshasa Sorcerer X and turn it into a LE Samsaran Sorcerer X and level it up into a LE Samsaran Sorcerer X Oracle Y?
OH, and what qualifies as a "mental ability"? (The entry for Magic Jar already clarifies the Rakshasa in this example keeps its INT, WIS, and CHA, as well as its "mental abilities", so, I'm not sure what that entirely entails. So just the Rakshasa's unique version of Detect Thoughts? The Rakshasa Bloodline should fill in the rest)
Um. Okay.
Two different things, here, though they bear enough similarities that they are t too far out there.
Are you suggesting that a Rakshasa sorcerer take over a Samsarran oracle's body?
If that's the case, the Samsarran oracle's three physicals ability scores are the only things "kept" by the Rakshasa - everything else "goes" with the Samsarran spirit (into the eponymous "jar" - which is actually a gem, barring specific magic items - in the case of the spell).
This is basically the same thing that's true when you reincarnate a creature: you keep the mind/spirit/HD/etc., but they get a new body with new physical racial traits.
I am curious about what happens to the Rakshasa's body in this case?
(As an aside, if you don't want to worry about the body, but want to keep a similar plot point, and you're actually using the spell as a method of transference, I recommend going to d20pfsrd.com and looking up greater possession spell - it should fulfill your needs while also allowing you to ignore the "what happened to the body" problem.)
If you're just saying that a Rakshasa died but was reincarnated into a Samsarran; as this has been very confusing to you (which is understandable - PF can do that to anyone sometimes), here is my recommendation: keep the Rakshasa most everything except physical scores; treat it as if it had a 10s in its physical scores, but with Samsarran racials (leaving it 10 Str/10 Dex/8 Con); continuous comprehend languages, and deathwatch; and lowlight vision. Lose the Rakshasa's DR, claw, and bite attacks. Allow it to gain levels in sorcerer as you like, increasing ability scores as you like. Rakshasa bloodline (ignore overlapping abilities). Add a +2 v. death effects. It's not super-RAW, but it's close enough, and I suspect it'll be easier for you to run. Sound good?
Hope it helps!
:D
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Well, the purpose is still to represent a rakshasa reincarnating into a samsaran when its expectation was to reincarnate into a rakshasa again, but instead became a samsaran with its memory intact. I just felt Magic Jar was simpler than the more literal Reincarnate.
That makes sense! I recommend the latter, then. I think that'll take care of most of what you're looking for. If you do decide to entirely shed the monster HD (I don't know that you should, but I'm having a bit of a hard time telling what you want by this point - sorry, I'm rather tired myself, today, after a long day of church and volunteer work), leave the mental scores intact, and just replace the monster HD with sorcerer HD with Rakshasa bloodline. I think that'll get you the most solidly inline with what you want. :)
Do feats or skills transfer to the new body? How so?
Feats and Skills are usually based on hit dice.