Hey, guys, newcomer to Pathfinder here (played D&D 5e for about four or five months when it first launched) looking for a little advice.
Some friends and I are starting a new group, and we've got a bit of an oddball party: Lashunta Occultist (aiming for a blasty sort of build), Grippli Rogue (possibly unchained, or possibly ninja, player is still deciding), Undine Monk, Kitsune Bard, Construct Fighter, and Sylph Witch (me), along with one or two low-power NPC allies.
I've already committed to be the party healer, but here's my dilemma: I wanted to be a hybrid healer-buffer (i.e. the Agility/Ancestors/Wisdom patrons combined with potion-making from Cauldron) or a hybrid healer-debuffer (probably Time patron while focusing in on a dedicated Hex build). However, with the Bard coming in I'm worried about my non-healing side becoming redundant, and with the Construct choosing Fighter over Warpriest, I'm now worried that I'll need to go Healing patron to keep up with healing/restoration needs (and I don't JUST want to be a healbot).
I'm also wanting to combine Herb Witch and Hedge Witch since they don't interfere with each other; I'm aware Herb makes Empathic Healing from Hedge irrelevant, but I'm okay with that (wasn't a real fan of that ability anyway, and the real meat for me is the spontaneous healing). I'll be taking Extra Hex as my 1st-level Feat to get back the Healing hex I'd otherwise be missing from Herb, between that and prepared Cure spells and spontaneous healing at 4th, will I have enough heals to keep all six of us AND NPCs on their feet by myself? And given that I want to get Wings of Air at 9th (which eats two feats total), what else can I slot into my build to be relevant outside of healing?
Again, new player, so I'm probably missing some obvious things (for example, I still don't get why people say the Shadow patron is so good, and I'm laughably inexperienced when it comes to picking traits and spells and such). Any advice I can get would be most welcome!
Well, the real answer here is have the party pitch in for a wand of cure light wounds asap (or take craft wand and make it yourself) The thing is you really should only be healing outside of combat, as in combat healing is largely counterproductive (maybe not in such a large party). It should really be used in combat in emergencies. As a witch you can have some really cool buff/debuffs as hexes.
Having the healing hex will aleivate the strain on a wand, and then you can use your spells for buffs/debuffs. Take ill omen at lvl 1 and let the fun begin. I prefer the witch as a debuffer. For hexes take evil eye, and misfortune, and you are set.
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Note: By strict RAW, you would not be able to take Extra Hex as your 1st level feat because Herb Witch replaces your 1st level Hex - meaning you don't count as having that class feature until you gain a hex at 2nd level.
When an archetype includes multiple alternate class features, a character must take them all—often blocking the character from ever gaining certain standard class features, but replacing them with other options. All other class features of the base class that aren't mentioned among the alternate class features remain unchanged and are acquired normally when the character reaches the appropriate level, unless noted otherwise. A character who takes an alternate class feature does not count as having the class feature that was replaced for the purposes of meeting any requirements or prerequisites.
If you have an archetype or other rules element that replaces part of a scaling class feature, or delays when you get that class feature, you do not have that class feature until you actually gain that class feature.
Example: If you have a fighter archetype that replaces weapon training 1 (but not weapon training 2, 3, and 4), you don't gain the weapon training 2 ability until fighter level 9, which means you don't have the weapon training class ability at all until you reach fighter level 9. Anything with "weapon training" or "weapon training class feature" as a prerequisite is unavailable to you until level 9.
Example: If you have a cleric archetype that replaces channel energy at level 1 (but not later increments of channel energy), you don't gain the channel energy ability until cleric level 3, which means you don't have the channel energy class feature until you reach cleric level 3. Anything with "channel energy" or "channel energy class feature" as a prerequisite is unavailable to you until level 3.
Example: If you have a witch archetype that replaces your hex at level 1 (but not later hexes, major hexes, or grand hexes), you don't gain your first hex ability until witch level 2, which means you don't have the hex class feature until you reach witch level 2. Anything with "hex" or "hex class feature" as a prerequisite is unavailable to you until level 2.
link
Some GMs might let you take the feat anyway considering that you're not replacing the class feature entirely, but you should check with your GM on that.
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For healing, remember that Bards have access to cure spells too & are equally capable of grabbing a spare CLW wand to help out between combat and in emergencies. With the healing hex, spontaneous healing, and wands for both of you - you should be more than set for healing the group. As was mentioned above, healing during combat tends to be subpar, as damage tends to outpace healing per actions used, so try to reserve in-combat healing for emergencies when someone is about to fall.
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Now for the fun stuff. Witch happens to be one of my favorite classes, so I'll give you my take on what I think would be useful.
For Hexes:
Evil Eye is easily my favorite. It's a swiss army knife debuff with unlimited uses that always debuffs the foe (unless they resist mind-affecting) for at least 1 round. Allies having trouble hitting a foe? Drop it's AC. Spellcasters really need to land a spell? Drop it's saves. Enemy looks like it'll hit hard? Drop it's attack so it misses. Have nothing else to do? Stack debuffs down the list to make it worse at everything.
Slumber is probably considered the most powerful of the standard hexes. Unlike similar spells like sleep or deep slumber, the slumber hex has no HD limit and ignores spell resistance. Additionally, putting an enemy to sleep can allow an ally to perform a coup de grace as a full round action - dealing automatic critical hit damage and forcing a Fort save or instant death.
Flight may also be a good consideration since you seem to want flying with the wings of air feat. It won't give you permanent fly like wings of air will, but you'll get a faster fly speed for minutes per level per day starting at 5th level (instead of 9th). Plus an at-will feather fall lets you ignore the idea of ever taking falling damage. [2nd favorite hex here]
Finally, you might be interesting in using the Scar hex to boost your emergency healing potential. You'll need 20 INT before you can have scars on all 5 of your other party members, but you can just focus on the front liners (fighter, monk rogue) if you're starting with at least 16 INT. Basically have allies voluntarily fail their save in order to get a scar on their body (something small and out of the way if you're nice) & you'll be able to use your healing hex on them at a range of 1 mile instead of touch. That way you can set this up long before any combats & can help someone even when you're prevented from getting close to them (as a witch, running up to enemies is usually a bad idea).
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Now for spells. An important note - try to make sure your harmful spells are capable of targeting different saves (Fort, Reflex, Will) and use spells likely to hit an enemy's bad saves if you can (big tough fighters tend to have poor will saves, casters tend to have poor fort saves, etc.) The witch spell list tends to focus on spells with Will saves, so spells that can target Fortitude or Reflex are notable if only for that reason. Bards have superior buffing abilities (inspire courage + haste alone are all the buffing a group usually needs) so I'd recommend focusing elsewhere on your abilities (though a few buffs that stack with bard effect / bards can't cast wouldn't be bad). Additionally, I tend to prefer debuffs + battlefield control + noncombat spells myself, so my suggestions will be influenced by that.
Enlarge Person - good buff for your fighter or monk which stacks with the bard's buffs (& isn't on bard's spell list).
Ill Omen - nice witch-only debuff spell. Forces enemies to roll next d20 twice and take the lower value - screwing with an attack or save.
Mage Armor - you'll probably want this for yourself since you can't wear much armor. Duration is measured in hours, so eventually you'll just cast this once in the morning and be good for the day.
Mudball - Blinding an enemy gives penalties to AC, 50% miss chance on their attacks, and can make them trip if they move too quickly. Even if they can use a Standard to automatically end the effect when their saves fail, doing so essentially wastes their turn, giving your allies more time to act.
Obscuring Mist - Wonderful for escapes, blocking enemy vision can prevent you from being targeted.
Shadow Trap - Prevents movement more than 5ft. debuffs attacks and forces casters to make concentration checks in order to use their spells. Even better, targets have to waste a full-round action to re-attempt the save if they fail the first one.
Greater Detect Magic - if you expect any magical intrigue to be going on in the campaign, this is a wonderful new spell to have.
Detect Thoughts - because my witches have never liked other people having secrets.
Frost Fall - small AoE which damages & can stagger enemies
Glitterdust - because invisible enemies are annoying, this will let the fighter know where to swing his sword. Plus can blind enemies for a couple rounds as a bonus
Hold Person - paralyzation is a powerful effect
Lipstich - When you really don't want that enemy caster casting. Not only do they lose the ability to cast after a fort save (which they're usually poor at), but they have to damage themselves to take a penalty to casting until they get healed.
Raven's Flight - a personal favorite of mine, swift action spell to spend your round flying. Gives you early access to the advantages of flying + can be used to escape combat (swift action spells don't provoke attacks of opportunity + withdraw action lets you move without provoking from 1st square).
See Invisibility - so you know where to cast glitterdust
Spectral Hand - lets you use touch spells at range, use to deliver your healing spells without running into danger yourself (that's what fighters are for)
Vomit Swarm - swarms are surprisingly nasty, being immune to all weapon damage if small enough & dealing automatic damage to anything sharing a space with them (+ forcing casters to make a concentration check to cast or lose their spell). Unlike Summon Swarm, this spell gives you a limited degree of control over the swarm, so its easier to not hurt your allies with it.
Bestow Curse - permanent curses, all listed versions are good + can make up curses with GM permission
Dispel Magic - to get rid of enemy debuffs, cancel a fly spell midair to inflict falling damage, etc.
Stinking Cloud - drop a cloud that nauseates targets within it. Warning: do not drop on allies unless you really want them to hate you.
Suggestion - get people to do what you want
Tongues - speak with any intelligent creature
Debilitation Portent - curse makes foe deal 1/2 their normal damage, can end curse in order to negate an enemy's critical hit
Dimension Door - verbal only teleportation spell. Since it lacks somatic components, can attempt to use while being grappled in order to escape
Enervation - inflict negative levels
Lesser Geas - forces a creature to follow a command
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Finally, I noticed that you didn't mention anything about familiars. Choosing a Raven as your level 1 familiar can give you a flying scout capable of speaking common to tell you what it sees. Other familiars can also be useful just for their skill bonus + granting alertness when near you. At level 7, you might also consider investing in the Improved Familiar feat to get a familiar capable of using wands to increase how much you can do in a round. (Of particular note is the faire dragon - which counts as a sorcerer & could use wands with any sorcerer spell in them without needing a check).
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The real job of a party healer is to take care of condition removal. As others have said, except in an emergency you should heal hit point damage outside of combat. With the Witch, the healing patron goes a long way to take care of that.
As you noted, the Bard will be able to do a pretty good job of filling the party support role. What your party is lacking is someone to do battlefield control. Basically, this job is limiting the ability of the foe to do damage to your group, and the witch class is pretty good at that.
Limiting damage can be caused be debuffs, creating alternate targets (usually summon monster), blocking movement, and other similar effects that prevent the enemy from attacking (or at least full attacking) your party or hitting them consistently. It is probably the most challenging role to play, as your tactics have to vary widely depending on the nature of the foe, but the witch has a really good spell list as well as their hexes to accomplish that.
If I were you, I would focus on that being my main job in the party, and have a secondary job being party support for condition removal (scrolls and potions are usefull here, so you can have your main spell loadout be your control spells.
Sorry I'm not quoting posts, I'm still figuring out some of the forum features and for some reason the "Reply" option doesn't quote full posts. :-S
@Hogeyhead: Are wands of CLW that easy to get in Pathfinder, then? I'm very used to the early days of 5e, where magic items in general are extremely hard to come by. Given our party composition (BTW, our Occultist has switched to Psychic so she can be a full caster instead of a half caster), would it make sense for me to become the crafter, or should that duty go to someone else?
@Charon Onozuka: Ahh, that could be a problem. I'm sure my GM would allow it, but it would bother me; I'll go ahead and take my Airy Step early then, and grab Extra Hex at third. It'll reduce my healing output from the Healing hex, but from what I'm hearing here that's not a huge issue. I'll keep Stabilize prepped for emergencies in the meantime, that should keep us safe from deaths at least.
Evil Eye was going to be my level 3 Extra Hex hex (and might still be, depending on if Healing hex is even needed with my build and the apparent ubiquity of CLW wands). I was tempted to pair it with Cackle, but I'm not sure if that's viable considering I won't have invisibility to hide behind to keep myself safe while I do the Cackling.
Slumber does indeed look powerful...possibly too powerful. Against a more experienced GM, I'd likely take it, but given that ours isn't a long-time veteran I think I'll hold off on this one just for the sake of maintaining table fun.
I do like the look of Flight, but I worry it'll be redundant since I'll be getting Wings of Air and I already have a 1/day Feather Fall from race (and now that I can't take Extra Hex at 1, I'm ignoring 30ft of fall damage automatically from Airy Step). If I could pass it on to allies once I have permaflight at 9, that'd be one thing, but as it stands it's a hex with a time limit on usefulness, unless I'm missing something?
Scar's definitely one I'm taking once I have Healing, I have a whole roleplaying "thing" I want to do with it. :-)
Thank you SO MUCH for the info on spells! That's one area I still haven't looked into a lot, so it's extremely helpful in figuring out what to do. :)
I was actually looking at Rhamphorhynchus for my familiar just for the Favored Class Bonus synergy, though Greensting Scorpion (associated with one of my character's two deities and still good bonuses) and Creamfoot Fennec fox are other options I'm looking at (our first adventure will be in Irrisen, and once we're done I'm going to ask our GM that we get to go to my character's homeland of Osirion and Qadira at some point, so Desert Runner from Creamfoot Fennec could pay off in spades).
@Dave Justus: Would my remedies from Herb Witch be enough to replace the Healing Patron? I was looking at possibly going Time or a patron more suited for debuffs/crowd control, but if Healing is going to be good I'm happy to keep it.
On a more general note, my skills (including race modifiers) are currently:
STR 7
DEX 18
CON 12
INT 19
WIS 14
CHA 7
I could drop Wis and Con by one each to get enough points for INT to hit 20 (we're going point buy, Epic Fantasy). Is the drop in Con (for HP/Fort saves) and Wis (for Will, Perception, and Profession (Herbalist) from Herb With) worth the extra language, spell/day, and skill point, or will I be fine with 19 INT until I up it at 4th level?
Also, a question from our Lashunta Psychic: since she has telepathy and my familiar understands Common, would she be able to communicate telepathically with it?