| Weltrath |
Here's the situation, spoilered in case people playing in Book 6 are reading this post. Obviously this question is for GMs who have ran all of book 6 only.
Since Big K is already well aware of them at this point, how should I handle them deciding to give the BBEG several days of additional prep time?
Baddies in there with him? Bring back one or more of the lieutenants they let live? Bring in some mercenaries? My idea was that Big K has other agents elsewhere in the world and might be calling on them to come, very quickly, to aid him.
| Weltrath |
I like your idea Ashkar. They brought this upon themselves.
Do they know the bad guy knows about them?
Yes, yes they do. They're taking the time anyway.
| Latrecis |
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Let's meta-game for a moment. Have they done this before? Have you changed encounters, increased difficulty, added allies, etc. in previous "inappropriate rest" situations? If not, would doing it now make you look like a <word that rhymes with trick?> If you did give Karzoug more allies/benefit of more prep time, how would your players know the encounter changed because they took their own prep time? Do you intend to continue the campaign further? Otherwise this is the last encounter of the AP, what is the benefit of making a difficult encounter even harder? (I interpret making Karzoug more effective as increasing the difficulty.)
Getting content specific:
First, Karzoug has known they were coming for a long time - since the end of Book 5. Depending on how much time has elapsed between them reaching Xin Shalast and getting to the Anima Focus, he should have very precise knowledge of their arrival and plenty of time to prepare. If there is some awesome prep strategy available to him, he should have already put it in place whether they delay going to the Eye or not. To that end, there are a few threads out here that discuss potent spell combinations and strategies for Karzoug - those would be a good thing to review.
Second, where are they spending this rest/prep time? In the Anima Focus room itself? Are there any survivors in the Pinnacle? If so, they of course rally among themselves and attack - preventing spell recovery, etc. Perhaps they are supported by another Karzoug image. But if all the occupants of the Pinnacle are dead, I think the players are within reason to assume they've cut Karzoug off from his Golarion based allies and his ability to communicate with them. And if all the leaders in the Pinnacle are gone, there isn't anyone left to call for aid from Xin Shalast. Karzoug could still call for aid in the Eye via spells such as planar binding or gate.
If the pc's leave the Pinnacle (keep in mind they cannot teleport in or out due to the Occluding Field) they could find the Pinnacle held against them by various Wardens and lamia led by Rune Giants. There is a Rune Giant general detailed in the Lost Cities sourcebook that might be used as a new leader.
Leave or stay, extended time between clearing out the Pinnacle and assaulting the Eye should let Karzoug shrug off any negative levels from dispelled images and even let him place new ones. Maybe the answer is as simple as a new image in the Anima Focus room: he activates the image, casts time stop, drops as many high level Summon Monster spells as the time stop allows and then casts Gate to summon a Demon Prince (annoyed and uncontrolled) and lets the fun begin. Karzoug isn't there so guess who faces the wrath of whatever comes through the Gate?
In my view, Karzoug wants to do everything he can to keep the pc's out of the Eye. If they get to the Eye, he's in real peril. From Golarion, they can't hurt him. In the Eye, they can kill him.
| Tangent101 |
If they spend one day resting, that should be fine. It does give Karzoug a chance to recover negative levels, but he really shouldn't have any additional allies. However, if they have not fully cleared out the Pinnacle then they should come under attack.
More than one day would risk Karzoug finding a way to attack them. In addition, he could always change his spells according to what he learned of the group.
Small question: did you have the party make Perception checks to detect his scrying?
| Narsham |
Wait, you can scry on Siheidron items when they aren't being used? .-. I was under impression that Karzoug can use Siheidron Medallion for scrying only when its weared
Wearing the Medallion means a -4 to the save to resist the at-will Scrying from the Runewell of Greed (see its description) and grants the power to speak through the wearer's mouth. But Karzoug can scry the PCs normally, too.
1 day definitely means Karzoug recovers negative levels and any spells he cast. When it becomes clear the PCs aren't attacking the following day, Karzoug has some options. (If he overhears them discussing how long they're going to rest, he has more.)
At the least, he could use 1 Wish to gather reinforcements. This is a good opportunity if the PCs missed a major foe earlier in the adventure or if someone escaped them to bring that enemy back, though obviously Xanesha isn't going to be as effective a reinforcement as, say, Ghlorofaex.
In theory, 1 Wish could bring 20 of Karzoug's Rune Giants to him, but doing that essentially makes winning the campaign impossible.
If you want to be mean but fair, Karzoug uses his ability to speak through a Sihedron Medallion to communicate with his servants in Xin-Shalast, who gather a huge attack force of dozens of giants and lamia and rush the Pinnacle. Allow the PCs to hear or detect this group on its approach, leaving them with the option of fleeing (which means having to fight through restocked foes in the Pinnacle) or hopping through the portal to kill Karzoug. If they flee, the replacement defenders of the Pinnacle should be on constant watch, their numbers limited only by the available Sihedron Rings and Medallions, until Karzoug is able to emerge.
If Karzoug has spoken to the PCs through their Medallions, they should know that he could also do that to any servitor wearing one, so I wouldn't let them get away with the false assumption that they've cut his lines of communication.
| Latrecis |
Not sure whether the off-topic spin about the Sihedron medallion and scrying was in jest but...
No, Karzoug cannot use the medallions (or rings) to scry on the pc's if they are NOT wearing them. See AE p. 426: "By concentrating on a scrying device (such as a runewell), a runelord can sense the world through the Sihedron medallion wearer’s senses, and could speak through her voice—provided the runelord knows of the existence of the medallion and the fact that it is being worn." Emphasis mine.
Not sure if the OP meant Karzoug was scrying on the pc's via the medallions even while they were in the portable hole or if his pc's simply thought putting the medallions in the portable hole would prevent him from scrying on them at all.
Putting them in the portable hole or simply not wearing them should keep Karzoug from using them to scry on them but not keep him from scrying on them the "normal" way.
Of course if they are not wearing the Sihedron items they should be getting regularly whacked by the Occluding Field even while in the Pinnacle.
| Weltrath |
Have they done this before? Have you changed encounters, increased difficulty, added allies, etc. in previous "inappropriate rest" situations?
Yes, there were several points where the party decided to take weeks or even months off to craft this or that, or have this or that crafted for them. Afterwards things were adjusted as there would be stringer and/or more enemies present.
Second, where are they spending this rest/prep time? In the Anima Focus room itself? Are there any survivors in the Pinnacle?
They headed to Magmidar.
Small question: did you have the party make Perception checks to detect his scrying?
Not a perception check. The person being scryed upon though did get their will save to resist it. He never used the medallion to actually scry on any party members. Also when encountering Mokmurian, one of the party members gave their full name to Mok/Big K, during the whole boxed text speech at the end. The party called Big K out and said they were coming for him and that he 'should expect them' if I remember the dwarf's words correctly.
The biggest thing they have going for them is they managed to salvage one of the 'trapped' mirrors from Runeforge. They plan to weaponize it in their fight.
rkotitan
|
If not altering the final encounter I would most certainly have the staff of the Pinnacle refilled (maybe not named NPC's) almost completely.
If the NPC's / K have the time to craft one shot magic items I would consider throwing in some scrolls or potions that kind of make things even more difficult specifically for the typical tactics of your players.
If your players are anything like mine they won't have a problem reclearing and dealing with all of the monsters again but maybe they 'might' think twice about taking such long breaks?
Additional: Take the Fight to Them
Have K scry them every day until they fail their save (of course they might cast mind blank but...) and then have a powerful caster servant of his and an assassin force teleport to their position and try to kill them while they would be resting / cause considerable damage to Magnimar causing the loss of much innocent life.
| Tinalles |
Hmm. Here's how I would play it out.
I refer your attention to the description of the Runewell on page 361 of the anniversary edition:
By the time the PCs arrive, Karzoug’s runewell should be almost fully charged—once it becomes completely charged (at a point you should feel free to determine yourself, should the PCs not defeat Karzoug on their first visit to the Eye of Avarice), Karzoug can step into the runewell and emerge in area X16 of the Pinnacle of Avarice, once again free to spread his evil across the world.
By the time the party returns from Magnimar and their few days of rest, Karzoug is on the very cusp of freedom. He needs one more soul -- just one more soul with even a hint of greed would be enough to set him free.
So, arrange for that to happen part way through the battle. It could be some random soul -- perhaps a villager from Turtleback Ferry who visited the Paradise dies, sending that last tiny shred of greed in. Perhaps Karzoug uses a quickened Arcane Mark to place the Sihedron on one of the PCs who has shown a tendency to greed, and then focuses fire on that PC till they go down -- the latter would be much more dramatic, but harder to pull off.
Regardless, arrange events so that the final soul reaches the Runewell immediately after Karzoug takes a turn. Let the PCs have one final round to take him out. If they can't, he beelines out of the Eye of Avarice and teleports away immediately on exiting. You would need to sub in a Greater Teleport at level 7 for this.
Then the campaign proceeds as described in the "What if Karzoug Wins?" section on page 368.
If you go this route, have a plan for letting the PCs have another crack at him. Free of the Eye of Avarice, Karzoug has no reason to fight the PCs, and every reason to avoid direct confrontation by sending wave after wave of minions against them. If the players can come up with a plan for forcing him to ground, great. If not, you should have some idea of your own that you can steer them towards, because, as a player, it would really suck to invest a huge amount of time in a campaign, get to the end, and lose.
Part of this depends on how comfortable you are with doing high level homebrew. If Karzoug gets loose, the nice tidy rails the campaign has been on up to this point fade abruptly into the grass, leaving you to find your own way. If that's not something you feel up to, then -- even though it breaks realism a tad -- just run it as written. Assume that the swathe the PCs carved through Karzoug's minions has left him basically without the ability to finish what he started, at least for the few days they want. He's stuck. Take away any negative levels he's got, and prep the room as best you can, and then he'll just have to sit there and wait his fate.
ckdragons
|
Keep in mind that if the characters are going in fresh with no spent resources, you will need to up the encounters. The purpose of the Pinnacle was to force the party to spend resources before the final fight. So, I would increase the CR of the encounter (3-4+) if you don't do anything else.