why the mounts? Mounts are hard in that they are difficult to have in some places, small corridors, or inside buildings. What are you wanting from your mount? Because not being mounted is much easier.
Animal companions are awesome for the reasons you listed.
Riding a mount is less awesome for the reasons I listed.
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The idea is mount move and attack. I switch 1 big weapon or 2 Weapons
Usually If your playing say a Lancer your Killing it with 1 hit on a mounted build. There is very little reason to need to "Switch"
I Like the Mounted ranger in PFS as it adds lots in the way of Skills and Spells and by extension Spell completion items (Wands of Longstrider/Feather Step/Cure Light Wounds). But I roll halfling for not needing the Feat tax to pull off smaller spaces with my companion. I like the Beastmaster ranger for the Full Druid Animal companion list. I use the Giant Gecko but there are a LOT of mount options. Dire Bats and Rocs to name a few. Also at level 12 the Beastmaster basically gains Boon Companion like ability so it removes that feat tax if you can hold off on it till then. On my PFS Avatar here I planned to Retrain out of fighter later...but doing a majority of the characters life with no 12+ content it was not logical to wait it out under those Circumstances. If your group uses retraining then def. take advantage of that.
why the mounts? Mounts are hard in that they are difficult to have in some places, small corridors, or inside buildings. What are you wanting from your mount? Because not being mounted is much easier.
A Huge reason I like the Giant Gecko is all the reasons Chess Pwn mentioned become null and void as Gecko goes EVERYWHERE.
I recommend Focusing on Lancing and by the time you pick up Mounted skirmisher at level 10 you can then pull off more of the switching weapons if you want...Personally I prefer Wheeling Charge and Ride By...just set up for another charge if they didn't die. Dashing around the Field of Combat killing things as you go is always awesome. Also the Spider Climb ability is amazing for dungeon diving. Making Charge lanes along walls or Ceilings is great. Another amazing thing about a Combat Trained Giant Gecko is they cost 160gp and are medium sized. Perfectly Affordable and Usable till you get your Class feature.
Fruian, he said he didn't want to go "mounted combat" just to do normal combat on a mount.
So I believe that he's not planning on doing mounted lance charges.
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Fruian, he said he didn't want to go "mounted combat" just to do normal combat on a mount.
So I believe that he's not planning on doing mounted lance charges.
Then we all know the result of a Multiclass build and the pathfinder system. They tend to hardly ever pay off and the end result is somethings significantly weaker than builds with more focus. Even a x2 lance charge does a lot more damage than any other 2 handed weapon he would be using. And totally blows TWF out of the water due to movement not allowing Full attacks. So really logically the best 2 handed weapon while mounted is the Lance even without Spirited Charge Feat.
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first of, thanks for the responses.
mounted combat, especially on a gecko or a flyer is indeed a nice thing to have .
but , a few things work against it.first of, after level 10, with mounted skirmisher, a STR human, on a wolf will do a lot more damage than a charge. (i'll put on some math below), the "best" charger is horse master cavalier, that spring attack in and out adding mount's STR .
the other thing is, out DM play and bring smart encounters. yes, ofc, the first opponent will drop from a charge - but than they will learn. mostly hunt down , block, bull rush of the mount, grapple the annoying charger that one shot them down.
lastly, small has issues. the -4 to STR isnt a lot when charging, it is when you full attack when not charging . the gecko with str of 18 isnt a wolf with str of 25 and CON of 20...
small tend to be looked down at (social skills) treated as children - so less social skills as well.
Your First part:
first of, after level 10, with mounted skirmisher, a STR human, on a wolf will do a lot more damage than a charge. (i'll put on some math below), the "best" charger is horse master cavalier, that spring attack in and out adding mount's STR .
Yes AFTER level 10...get there first...this is why I recommended Retraining Rules Here:
If your group uses retraining then def. take advantage of that.
Secondly I can agree that a CAV has the BEST mounted damage as I never claimed it did not. I understand mounted combat VERY well and very confident in my knowledge of Mounted Combat. Yes the Best is the Scimatiar Horse Lord Cav Doing 3x Spirited Charges that Crit on 15-20 and Use Order of the sword for the Mounts Str to damage. But I was assuming you were looking at your Ranger options as the Title of the Threat is: MOUNTED. MELEE RANGER. and in the first sentence you say:
I am working on a mounted human ranger.
So the comparison of Mounts adding STR to the charge is null and void as you need 8 levels of Cavalier.
Next lets look at your second point:
the other thing is, out DM play and bring smart encounters. yes, ofc, the first opponent will drop from a charge - but than they will learn. mostly hunt down , block, bull rush of the mount, grapple the annoying charger that one shot them down.
A good DM will always find/know ways to shut down ANY build so this can hardly be used as an excuse anymore can it?
It is Hard to Block, Bull rush, Grapple, Hunt down a Mounted character who is charging from the Ceilings/walls. Since most Creatures can not walk on them like you can. thus your charge lanes are opened a lot more than your Ground bound Wolf. But even still the DM is going to try and take you out of your element on occasion...it happens but should not be a discouragement. I played 8 Levels of PFS before I retired my Mounted Ranger and I was dismounted for 2 fights over 8 levels/24 sessions (rough Average of 96 combats). That is a very small number of encounters. I distinctly remember 1 of the fights I was against a favored enemy anyways so Power attack and FE was plenty to kill the enemy quickly enough.
Alright onto the last part:
lastly, small has issues. the -4 to STR isn't a lot when charging, it is when you full attack when not charging . the gecko with str of 18 isnt a wolf with str of 25 and CON of 20...
small tend to be looked down at (social skills) treated as children - so less social skills as well.
First it is -2 Str not -4 str. But you get +1 to hit so it only effect damage. Halflings get Risky Striker that makes up that difference handily and Wayangs do not have a Str penalty. The difference in damage between medium and small mounted characters is not enough to be an Auto Dismissal. But the fact they stay on their mounts more often should also be taken into consideration. Being off your mount really kills off many of your feats.
The Wolf vs. Gecko Str was covered above and is the difference in Cav levels or No Cav levels. Comparing Different Classes does very little but continue to prove Caviliar is the most damaging Mounted Damage builds. This was already well known and established. If you want the Highest possible damage Go Cav. If your looking for other things like skills, spells, scouting tools, ext ext...then other classes can offer less damage but more utility and options.
The Social skills is not true and seems to be more a DM or personal take on those skills and how a halfling is viewed. No where have I seen in the rules Halflings get major negative to social skills for being Small. Other than intimidate used to demoralize. But Favored Enemy really helps boost up Social skills. Favored Terrain is great as well for boosting skills. Both PC and AC get the Favored Bonuses too.
So I ask my question. If you're not charging, what is the point of riding your mount? The answer to this will probably greatly help the advice you get to be relevant.
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a few replies - Ranger, is ofc the chosen class over cavalier or other for the whole package- not the feats or mounted abilities.
charges require direct line, with 1 turn from wheeling charge.
not so easy or automatic... as angles will make it harder, etc.
First I know a Charge Requires a Direct Line. ALso requires a Minimum of 10ft of Movement.
Running along the walls of a 10ft wide corridor means you can have more Direct lines. Charging Across a 10-15ft Ceiling means you can open up direct lines. Neither have to worry of Teammates getting in your way. With Longstrider and Feather Step you can ignore Difficult Terrain. So more charging lanes are opened up. It will not make it harder. Literally I stay stuck to walls or Ceilings myself inside dungeons. Also as a scout it helps...who puts traps on the Ceilings?
1-power attack
2- ride by
3-mounted combat
5-boon companion (retained back at 12)
7-spirited charge
9 - wheeling
11- risky
My PFS build Looks like:
1 Mounted COmbat2 Ride By
3 SPirited Charge
5 (Fighter Dip) Boon companion and Power Attack
7 Wheeling Charge
9 Risky Striker
11 (Ranger feat) Mounted Skirmisher
11- Improved critical or Horn of the Cyrosphinx
Here is a Variant for those who want PA 1st level:
Fighter 1/ Beast Ranger X
1: Power Attack & Mounted COmbat
3: Ride By attack
3 (Ranger Feat) Spirited Charge
5: Boon Companion*
7 Wheeling Charge
9 Risky Striker
11 Improved critical or Horn of the Cyrosphinx
11 Ranger bonus feat- Mounted Skirmisher
Over the Years I have learned that Power Attack can be put off a bit. In PFS and Printed AP's I have been able to hold off on PA till Level 6 and still be quite Effective. You do have at least 3 other players at the table too.
While Actually playing I have noticed Boon COmpanion is Necessary for animals that will be doing the fighting. On COmpanions you just ride it is less necessary but welcomed. I learned SAVES where the most important. You can negate attacks with mounted combat and you tend to not be in melee when you ride by. So the Animal companions AC means less than it taking a Fireball blast. Luckily Ranger gets resist energy as a 1st level spell and it lasts most the dungeon with a decent Caster level. (Magical Knack) Will saves are also Important and I can't stress Valiant Steed for your ride. A very notable feat is Indomitable Mount. But it contends with Wheeling Charge I believe as one is Last wall affinity and the other is from another city. But it is a great feat and could easily be replaced for boon Companion so you can skip it altogether.
But I speak all this to you from Experience not from just Theorycrafting and playing the What If game. I was asked to retire the character cause how crazy strong it was. For the first 7 levels I was still 1 shotting bosses which is not bad for a Non-Cav Lancer.
Lastly:
as for social ? the DM look at it as mostly human cities. human tend to look down at small size in our reality, in fantasy books and in the hobbit (the bible of it all) - so he got something to lean on ...
This is a Table Variant I can assure you. As Pathfinder Universe and Rules is much different than that of the Hobbit. Pathfinder is a Higher fantasy game while LotR is considered a lower magic fantasy setting. Hobbits and Halflings are actually different breeds of Halflings much like Kender are. In pathfinder by RaW Halflings can still do social skills much like all other races. He would have nothing to lean on at a PFS table or in another group of Players. That is his interpretation of it in HIS (the DMs) World.
I am not condemning this as if your table plays it like this it is fine. But Remember Favored Enemy human is strong and buffs those Social skills. I'm also the type of player that likes to take things that are viewed as weak and make it more than viable.
