Okay, so I a player I'm playing with is playing a bizarre high strength Alchemist(vivisectionist w/ 4 arms)/Ninja build who specializes in stealth kills by dual-wielding Nodachis(at -4 AB for 2 non-light weapons) and full attacking till things are dead while blinking in and out of invisibility. It's, thus far, been much better than it may sound in terms of effectiveness but I'm looking to get him some better AC because he is certainly useless without buffs(Mutagen, Shield, Invisibility, etc).
I suggested that he use a Buckler(mithral Buckler) so that he at least has a decent AC item for ambushes but isn't in love with the -1 to AB when he already takes so many other negatives. So is there a way to eliminate the buckler penalty that I'm not aware of? Or is there another better AC option that won't interfere with his TWF nor eat his action economy like casting shield does? And no, TWD is not an option because he apparently doesn't have room for the feat and we want more than +1 AC if possible.
Thanks to any and all replies.
So.....you can't legally wield 2 nodachis. A nodachi is a two-handed weapon and no matter how you acquired your arms you only have 1 main hand. A main hand is required for a two-handed weapon, so you can't legally wield two two-handed weapons.
Further, as an alchemist I'm assuming your using Vestigial Arm to have extra arms. Vestigial arms don't grant you any extra attacks.
Alchemist, Tentacle/Vestigial Arm: What does "extra attacks" mean for these discoveries?
It means "extra," as in "more than you would be able to make if you didn't have that discovery."
For example, if you're low-level alchemist who uses two-weapon fighting, you can normally make two attacks per round (one with each weapon). If you take the tentacle discovery, on your turn you can make
* two weapon attacks but no tentacle attack,
* a weapon attack with your left hand plus a secondary tentacle attack, or
* a weapon attack with your right hand plus a secondary tentacle attack.
At no time can you make a left hand weapon attack, a right hand weapon attack, and a tentacle attack on the same turn because the tentacle discovery says it "does not give the alchemist any extra attacks or actions per round." This language is calling out that the tentacle is not a standard natural weapon and doesn't follow the standard rules for using natural weapons (which would normally allow you to make the natural weapon attack in addition to your other attacks).Likewise, if you instead took the vestigial arm discovery and put a weapon in that arm's hand, on your turn you can make
* a weapon attack with your left hand and one with your right hand,
* a weapon attack with your right hand and one with your vestigial arm, or
* a weapon attack with your left hand and one with your vestigial arm,
At no time can you make a left hand weapon attack, a right hand weapon attack, and a vestigial hand weapon attack on the same turn because the vestigial arm discovery says it "does not give the alchemist any extra attacks or actions per round."
The exact same restrictions would apply if your race had claws or you had some other ability to add claws to your limbs: the text of both discoveries says they do not give you any extra attacks per round, whether used as natural weapons, wielding manufactured weapons, or adding natural weapons to a limb that didn't originally have natural weapons.Remember that these two discoveries do not have any level requirements, and therefore are not especially powerful; permanently adding additional attacks per round is beyond the scope of a discovery available to 2nd-level alchemists.
So.....you can't legally wield 2 nodachis. A nodachi is a two-handed weapon and no matter how you acquired your arms you only have 1 main hand. A main hand is required for a two-handed weapon, so you can't legally wield two two-handed weapons.
Further, as an alchemist I'm assuming your using Vestigial Arm to have extra arms. Vestigial arms don't grant you any extra attacks.
*FAQ rules stuff*
I'm quite aware this isn't a strictly legal build but the DM(Not me) is going with it anyways, mostly for rule of cool.
Though FYI my friend only uses the extra arms to wield weapons that he couldn't normally wield but otherwise follows the normal rules for TWF(He reduces the TWF penalties from -6/-10 to -4/-4 for the feat since his weapons aren't light). At level 8(our current level) he has only 6 BAB & his attack sequence before strength, weapon enchantment & other buffs is a mere +2/+2/-3. No "extra" attacks, just better weapon damage and crippling over-specialization. Because he's such a one trick pony I want him to have some extra AC though. Thanks though, if it's easier just imagine he's wielding 2 long swords to similar effect since IMO it's basically the same thing in practice.
there is the Shield extract... why isn't your Alchemist chugging those?
What about your Mutagen? You can take the Greater Mutagen feat [at lvl 12 though] to get a +4 Natural Armor bonus.
He is doing those things! As I said in my OP, I want him to have a constant source of shield bonus that isn't reliant on buff spells. As it stands, if combat starts he has to turn invisible so he's not as vulnerable, then drink a shield extract, then his mutagen, and then a good hope. He does that and some other stuff, but that wastes a LOT of time and ultimately limits his involvement in game because combat can be over before he's done or the rest of us are dead and he needs to escape. Granted, this isn't as big of an issue when he has the time to buff, but that's not always an option.
You can eliminate the buckler penalty it's ungindering shield style. You could also just use a light weapon is one offhand, use a shield in the other, and have a better AC and better accuracy.
Oh, that sounds perfect. What's that feat in? I'm not familiar with that one.
I'm assuming that as a Ninja he is getting a lot of mileage out of his (many) Sneak Attacks and his main source of damage is not from his weapon.
With that in mind, if he has spare gold he could get someone to Permanency a Reduce Person spell on him. +2 dex (1 AC there), +1 AC, +1 AB, aswell as a +4 stealth bonus. He loses 2 str and his damage die drop a tier, but I've assumed his damage is mostly sneaks.
He does get a few, so I think I'll at least suggest it to him though I'm unsure how receptive he'll be to it. But thanks for the suggestion!
Multiweapon Fighting
This multi-armed creature is skilled at making attacks with multiple weapons.
Prerequisites: Dex 13, three or more hands.
Benefit: Penalties for fighting with multiple weapons are reduced by –2 with the primary hand and by –6 with off hands.
Normal: A creature without this feat takes a –6 penalty on attacks made with its primary hand and a –10 penalty on attacks made with all of its off hands. (It has one primary hand, and all the others are off hands.) See Two-Weapon Fighting.
Special: This feat replaces the Two-Weapon Fighting feat for creatures with more than two arms.
I think that this feat might turn those extra arms into extra attacks, however, the two-handed weapon issue with only one primary hand would still apply. You could wield a nodachi, a wakazashi and a heavy shield. Shield Focus +1 to shield's AC bonus, Improved Shield Bash feat to retain shield bonus to AC while using the shield to make attacks. Tower Shield Proficiency would effectively add +4 to your AC similarly.
Another option, 2nd level Titan Mauler Barbarian. They can wield a two-handed weapon in one hand.
Multiweapon Fighting
This multi-armed creature is skilled at making attacks with multiple weapons.
Prerequisites: Dex 13, three or more hands.
Benefit: Penalties for fighting with multiple weapons are reduced by –2 with the primary hand and by –6 with off hands.
Normal: A creature without this feat takes a –6 penalty on attacks made with its primary hand and a –10 penalty on attacks made with all of its off hands. (It has one primary hand, and all the others are off hands.) See Two-Weapon Fighting.
Special: This feat replaces the Two-Weapon Fighting feat for creatures with more than two arms.I think that this feat might turn those extra arms into extra attacks, however, the two-handed weapon issue with only one primary hand would still apply. You could wield a nodachi, a wakazashi and a heavy shield. Shield Focus +1 to shield's AC bonus, Improved Shield Bash feat to retain shield bonus to AC while using the shield to make attacks. Tower Shield Proficiency would effectively add +4 to your AC similarly.
Another option, 2nd level Titan Mauler Barbarian. They can wield a two-handed weapon in one hand.
I think he just wants to dual wield big swords, not turn each arm into an attack but I will run this by him anyways so I can at least give him a heads up.
I'll also see if he's willing to go into Titan Mauler cause that would be very good for him(more HP, AB, and fort) but I don't think he wants to lose out on sneak attack die. Still worth the suggestion though, so thanks!