dwarf fighter / wizard build


Advice


Moderators--If there is a better place to discuss this topic, just let me know.

A buddy talked me into playing into joining his ongoing Pathfinder game. Due to lack of rules familiarity, I'm having trouble balancing the details of character design vs. character concept to create a character that functions effictively (leaving us free to role play.)

His game is kind of like quantum leap in a medieval-like fantasy world. We still know who we are, but our characters are chosen based on how the members of this other world might see us. Our ultimate goal is to figure out how to get home, but he could throw anything at us in the meantime.

Here are the different aspects of my life that got me thinking "dwarf fighter-wizard:"
*I fight in the SCA.

*My first game session started with me grabbing camping supplies and my SCA kit as I went through a portal into this other universe. My kit is a lot like this image SCA kit (without the horse, obviously.)

*I'm a physicist. I could see this becoming magic themed as--electricity and magnetism, light, sound, pressure, small explosives, non-combat tasks like deciphering runes or scrolls, etc... We could call this rune-based or science-based (but that's just fluff.)

*I have a beard ;-) and a favorite "grumpy dwarf" coffee mug.

*I visualize dwarves less campy-Peter Jackson-esque and more like Fafnir (in a magical direction) or like combat engineers (in a technology direction.)

I've got 3 levels to play with and originally did a sloppy write-up as a 1/2 fighter/wizard with alchemy crafting, armor crafting, and engineering skills. We're only a couple sessions in and my character hasn't realized he can throw spells yet, so I could probably talk my friend into letting me readjust my character.

Set aside details like ability scores for now. (Honestly mine seem inflated. I may check with my friend to confirm that they are normal in his campaigns.)

What advice can you offer about how to combine this type of themed spell-casting with a fighter to produce an effective melee character?

Is scale mail the best way of modeling my kit in the game? (Honestly, before a real combat situation, I would evaluate whether to ditch confining armor parts like gauntlets.) On initial read-through of the wizard class, casting in heavy armor throws up a big red flag limiting spell options.


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My best advice: don't multiclass. Pathfinder is chuckful of classes that mix casting and fighting, so you are better served with those.

In the case of your concept, here're are few that fit:

Magus: The premier caster/fighter class. Can do everything you want - fight and cast, with a ton of abilities to use scrolls and what not. They are also some of the best weapon/armor-smiths out there.

Investigator: The premier scholarly class. It is INT-based, has tools to kill at skill checks, tools use its intelligence to add to its attacks, and rather than spells, uses alchemical supplies to great effect, allowing it to produce different quasi-magical boosts to apply on itself.

Any of these two seem interesting?


Another direction would be to go straight fighter and throw most of my skills into something like alchemical crafting. Have to do the math (when I'm more awake) to see how long it would take to make items. Don't want the party to have to stop and wait for me to make items unless it serves a plot point.

Edit--Our messages crossed in electronic space. I'll look up those two classes. They're not in the core rulebook, so I hadn't made it that far.


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Honestly, if that's your goal, go with Investigator. They get the Swift Alchemy feature that reduces the time for alchemical crafting in half.


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Also consider adding in this archetype to the base investigator *LINK*.

It removes the poison related features, keen recollection and trapsense in exchange for light-based abilities that may be thematic.

Spend your first feats on Medium Armor Proficiency, and go around with a Heavy Pick in hand and a masterwork buckler with a shield sconce (to put a torch in) on your off-hand.

Use your buckler hand to drink extracts to boost yourself up.


Magus IS the fighter/wizard as a single class. You get armor, you get weapons, you get the ability to take fighter-only feats, you get a unique synergy between weapon and spell that no other class has.

The traditional weapon of the magus, the scimitar or rapier, are not particular dwarfy, but there's nothing stopping you from using an axe with a magus.


Well, It reads more like you want roleplay advice than build advice.

Dwarves dont take penalties so much, but dont get benefits in the areas you want. Elves get an Intelligence bonuses, while Humans, Half-orcs, and half-elves can pick one stat to boost, so pick Intelligence.

Multiclassing has several problems especially for casting classes. Your possibility to successfully cast spells goes way down as that factor is determined by your caster level.

So a Magus can be a level 20 caster, while a Fighter/wizard cannot. Certain types of spellcasters, Arcane types, have restrictions that handicap or outright prevent them from casting in armor or with certain weapons. The Magus have exceptions to some of them so you can wear Light armor without penalty and later medium and finally heavy armor..

Its easy to build a combat character. But I think you want a quirky one that isnt that.

There are classes that are be highly skilled that would fit better. the Gunslinger isnt a skilled character, but is at least partially an engineer and uses crude guns. Investigator is a Sherlock Holmes type with the ability to make magical potions among other other benefits.


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It's worth noting that dwarves have their own variant of the magus, the deep marshal archetype. Its spell list loses enchantment, illusion and necromancy and gains a bunch or earth or crafting spells. Also they get to wear medium armor (e.g. scale mail) which may be closer to your SCA kit than the normal light armor of a magus.


Instead of investigator play an alchemist. They get not only alchemy but also get bombs and can even change the bombs to other forms of energy with the right discovery. The investigator is kind of a mix of alchemist and rogue. They also have a more scientific feel, even if it is more of a mad scientist.

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avr wrote:
It's worth noting that dwarves have their own variant of the magus, the deep marshal archetype.

Deep marshal is pretty bad though. It's better to play a regular Magus who simply wields a dwarven waraxe. Sure, you'll crit less often than a scimitar, but your base damage is much better.

The Magus does have quite a lot of spells that deal with "electricity and magnetism, light, sound, pressure, small explosives, non-combat tasks like deciphering runes or scrolls". Here's a Magus guide with more info.


Deep Marshall does get the enhancement of weapons as bonus caster level and to SR. That's nothing to scoff at.


Thanks, folks. Will sit down after work and give your advice more thought.


Deep Marshall could make a fun control build. Use a dwarven longaxe with a dwarven Boulder helmet. You can spell combat with the helmet, and still have the longaxe for taking attacks of opportunity. Spell combat will be used more for control or buffs than for delivering attacks.

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If you want a STR magus build, Deep Marshall certainly isn't terrible. It's nice to be able to spell-cast in mithril full plate at lowish levels to get a solid AC, especially combined with Shield.

The Intensify metamagic becomes even more useful when you get +1 and eventually +2 to caster level.

Scarab Sages

See, I fully support the Fighter/Wizard multi-class. Work it Fighter 1/Wizard 5, then take Eldritch Knight. Pick up the Magical Knack trait that increases caster level by 2 for Wizard, and you don't lose any caster levels, are free to wield good weapons/armor as you see fit, and most importantly, get to pick up a few things:

1) Glory of Old trait. Increases your Dwarven Hardy bonus by 1.
2) Steel Soul feat. Increases your Dwarven Hardy bonus by 2.
3) The Void Elemental School as a Wizard. Not ONLY does this fit the campaign idea, it works really well with the overall build as far as bonus spells go, AND... it gives you a +2 bonus to saves vs. spells & spell-like abilities.

At 3rd level, With 1 Fighter/2 Wizard, your saves against spells will be Fort +9, Ref +7, Will +10, and that's all before stat bonuses (which, as a dwarf, mean that your Fort and Will saves are probably a good bit higher). You'll never have to worry about spells again, and you can save your spells for things like long duration buffs at the mid-levels (stoneskin, heroism, etc.) that will keep your damage/defenses relevant, and after casting them you can crawl back into your armor for free (or cast one of those low-level armor-donning spells).

I say stick with it. It's more interesting than pure magus.


Consider going all Wizard or all Fighter (who has skill points in craft alchemy). Maybe a Mutation Fighter. A physicist with a beard could be either.

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The problem with deep marshall is that it has poor defenses. This is because the Magus's best defenses are all illusion spells (e.g. Mirror Image or Greater Invis) and marshy isn't allowed to use those.

Dwarven longaxe and boulder helmet is a good combo, but any Magus can use that. Wearing mithril armor and the Shield spell to get solid AC is also a good combo, but again any Magus can use that.

If you want electricity and magnetism, light, sound, pressure, small explosives; well, light and sound means you need the Illusion school (you get the full Minor Image line as well, on any archetype except marshy). A much better choice of archetype would be Bladebound (hello, intelligent and self-enchanting axe!) or Puppetmaster (debuffing archetype with an even broader selection of enchantment/illusion spells) or Staff Magus (the best defensive archetype).


Lots of good ideas here and I've got a lot to process. I've provided more background and raised a few questions to confirm that I understand the options provided by the rules. Feel free to critique.

I want to survive role-playing the process of discovering any magical abilities we write into my character. This means that I have to be able to use the gear I brought with me--scale armor, metal shield, and longsword. Being able to use looted gear would be convenient.

Options for a magic user to get medium armor proficiency, martial weapon or long sword proficiency, and shield proficiency at level 3 are one of:
*Take at least 1 level of fighter.
*Use class and/or race combat feats to fill in the missing proficiencies for a given class.
*Be a deep marshall.

I can't count on being able to buy or loot any specific specialty armor or weapons since this type of stuff will show up at the GM's discretion.

With three levels to play with, options for a medium armor-wearing character to immediately cast arcane spells would be:
*Cast spells (buffing spells or utility spells) before or after combat while not wearing the armor.
*Cast non-somatic spells in combat.
*Attempt to cast somatic spells in combat and accept the possibility of failure.
*Spend GP and time to scribe pre-prepared scrolls. May these be read 1-handed while wearing medium armor?

Long-term options for this character to eventually cast arcane spells in medium armor are:
*Take the metamagic still spell feat.
*Take levels in Eldrich Knight.
*Level-up further as a magus.

How does this mechanic change with potion and/or bomb abilities that aren't arcane or divine?
*May investigators and alchemists drink their potions in medium armor?
*May alchemists throw bombs in medium armor?
*Are these one or two handed actions?

If the assumption is that I'm (at least for now) juggling sword, shield, and a scroll (or potion, or other spell-like item), it seems like a "quick draw" combat feat might be useful. Enter with the scroll in my hand, cast it, and draw another scroll or my sword as a free action.

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Well, since you asked in your OP "Is scale mail the best way of modeling my kit in the game?", the easiest answer is to say that instead, you model your kit with a chain shirt. Only one point less of AC, and avoids all the hassle with medium armor. Or, call it parade armor, or call it mithral scale mail (which is considered light armor); same result.

Frankly, medium armor is an awkward downside with zero benefit to your character.

Another solution is to play the Mindblade archetype of Magus, who can cast any spell in armor. Yet another solution is to dump your armor and routinely cast Mage Armor.

Note that the Magus can already use all martial weapons, although most other arcane casters cannot. Also note that no spellcaster needs to use a lot of scrolls in combat, since they can cast spells from memory.


Re the alchemist/armor questions; yes, alchemists and investigators can freely use their abilities in armor, and all those are one-handed actions as is reading a scroll. If you're not proficient however then any attack rolls suffer the armor check penalty. Scrolls suffer the arcane spell failure chance though IIRC, they're not a solution to that.

The deep marshal can cast in medium armor without arcane spell failure. It has to be said though, scale armor sucks. It's something for dumb monsters and broke militia in PF.

Anyway; while the base magus is generally stronger, deep marshal is a viable character IMO. Alchemist or investigator 2/(anything with the proficiencies you want) 1 is also viable, and might work best if you read that kit as some form of heavy armor.


Calling my kit light armor would definitely simplify things.

My GM is the one that originally went "Pick scale mail because that's what you always wear" and I think it'd really violate the story he has in his head if I arbitrarily ditched it. Maybe I could make the case that stainless steel = mithral ;-).


I built a full Deep Marshall Magus and it was a great character who hit like a truck. It was a very fun build.

I'd go straight Deep Marshall and never look back.


J. S. wrote:

With three levels to play with, options for a medium armor-wearing character to immediately cast arcane spells would be:
*Cast spells (buffing spells or utility spells) before or after combat while not wearing the armor.
*Cast non-somatic spells in combat.
*Attempt to cast somatic spells in combat and accept the possibility of failure.
*Spend GP and time to scribe pre-prepared scrolls. May these be read 1-handed while wearing medium armor?

Long-term options for this character to eventually cast arcane spells in medium armor are:
*Take the metamagic still spell feat.
*Take levels in Eldrich Knight.
*Level-up further as a magus.

How does this mechanic change with potion and/or bomb abilities that aren't arcane or divine?
*May investigators and alchemists drink their potions in medium armor?
*May alchemists throw bombs in medium armor?
*Are these one or two handed actions?

If the assumption is that I'm (at least for now) juggling sword, shield, and a scroll (or potion, or other spell-like item), it seems like a "quick draw" combat feat might be useful. Enter with the scroll in my...

Arcane spells are the most restrictive spells. Wizard, magus, Sorceror, Bloodrager, and maybe a few others use this type. To be able to use it effectively you need hidden bonuses to allow you to use it with armor listed in class proficiencies.

Divine spells are used by priests, paladins, druids, and the like. They have much fewer requirements. You just need to carry and be able to show off your Holy Symbol item. That is replaceable by a Holy Tattoo for a small fee.

Alchemy is a special kind of magic equivalent. You can make spells, but they are in the form of potions that you have to pull out and use requiring several actions. You cannot share them unless you are an Alchemist with a class Discovery called "Infusion"

I suggest you avoid the Eldritch Knight. Its an old Prestige class that doesnt allow armor but is an Arcane caster. Magus makes it largely obsolete and isnt a prestige.

1 Light armor doesnt lower your speed and has little to no penalties towards dexterity and strength based Skill checks.
2 Medium armor slows down your speed and has greater Dex and Strength penalties, but has higher ArmorClass.
3 Heavy Armor has the greatest penalties in exchange for the the greater Armor Class. Rare as a proficiency.

Metamagic feats vary is usefulness and some are quite bad in a class that cant unlock tier 7-9 spells as the metamagic feast increase the tier of spell slot required to use. Intensified Spell only increases the spell tier by 1 but adds up to 5 levels on a damage spell. Shocking Grasp is an often used spell on the Magus and an Intensified SHocking Grasp does 10d6 damage at Magus level 5.

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