Dragon Disciple (Not Sub-Optimal)

[Mr Smiles]

So reading through some posts I saw someone say basically the dragon disciple is not very good. While I don't have a build done for every aspect I can tell you that a dragon disciple with a focus on building your AC is excellent. I am playing a monk with crane style.

My relevant stats to this discussion
Dex(16) bonus +3
Wis(16) bonus +3
Feat taken Dodge

At level 1 AC = 17 Tch 17 FF 13
Fighting with crane style lvl 1 AC = 20 Tch 20 FF 13

At level 4 multi-class 1 lvl of Sorcerer take the spells mage armor(which usually lasts long enough between rest periods) and shield (takes 1 round usually lasts an encounter)

Potential AC level 4 = 25 Tch 17 FF 21
Potential AC level 4 crane style = 28 Tch 20 FF 21

At level 5 Dragon Disciple you start to get natural armor, you get strength bonuses (to make up for your lower to hit fighting defensively), bigger hit die more spells, Bite attack, con bonus, and so on

Now I understand you may be better off going straight monk in terms of class abilities and even possibly AC, but the point is that a Dragon Disciple is not Sub-Optimal. Do not ever out of hand reject a character idea because you think just from a glance that it is trash. It's about having fun and making strange ideas work for you. Pathfinder's comprehensive rules will fit almost anybody ideas for a play style and they don't have to be sub-optimal to do it.

[Chess Pwn]

Sub-optimal just means not the most optimal. Sub-optimal can vary from super powerful to awful.

10 monk would have +1 ac from class feature and +2 ac from bark skin ki power.

Like your example shows that it's sub-optimal. You say your guys has good AC but that full monk would have better class abilities and AC. choosing an option when there's a better option is sub-optimal. But can easily still make for a good, playable character.

[Bob Bob Bob]

Dragon Disciple only does this one thing really well! But it's worse at it than just a straight classed monk! That's a heck of a way to torpedo your own argument.

Honestly, the Dragon Disciple had a place... back when the game was Core only. The Magus took the fighting mage niche and the bloodrager has taken over fighting dragon man. There's no reason to be forced to take 3/4th BAB and 7/10 casting when you can just take a regular class. One built to do what you want from the base, rather than tacked on afterwards.

[Dragonchess Player]

Generally speaking, staying in dragon disciple for more than four levels hurts more than it helps. Basically, once you get the +4 Str and +3 natural armor, the rest of the class features are kind of meh (IMO).

[blashimov]

"I do not think this word means what you think it means"

[johnlocke90]

Mr Smiles wrote:

So reading through some posts I saw someone say basically the dragon disciple is not very good. While I don't have a build done for every aspect I can tell you that a dragon disciple with a focus on building your AC is excellent. I am playing a monk with crane style.

My relevant stats to this discussion
Dex(16) bonus +3
Wis(16) bonus +3
Feat taken Dodge

At level 1 AC = 17 Tch 17 FF 13
Fighting with crane style lvl 1 AC = 20 Tch 20 FF 13

At level 4 multi-class 1 lvl of Sorcerer take the spells mage armor(which usually lasts long enough between rest periods) and shield (takes 1 round usually lasts an encounter)

Potential AC level 4 = 25 Tch 17 FF 21
Potential AC level 4 crane style = 28 Tch 20 FF 21

At level 5 Dragon Disciple you start to get natural armor, you get strength bonuses (to make up for your lower to hit fighting defensively), bigger hit die more spells, Bite attack, con bonus, and so on

Now I understand you may be better off going straight monk in terms of class abilities and even possibly AC, but the point is that a Dragon Disciple is not Sub-Optimal. Do not ever out of hand reject a character idea because you think just from a glance that it is trash. It's about having fun and making strange ideas work for you. Pathfinder's comprehensive rules will fit almost anybody ideas for a play style and they don't have to be sub-optimal to do it.

Sub-optimal isn't the same as unplayable. In a poorly optimized group, your Dragon Disciple works, but in that group nobody is playing optimally.

Heck, an AC focused character is pretty sub-optimal in general. Enemies have no reason to attack you over your higher damage output allies.

[Kahel Stormbender]

Dragon Disciple does trade away a good portion of your casting ability. And in general a sorcerer doesn't want to be in melee combat often enough to benefit from most of the DD class abilities. That said, it is still IMO a fairly solid prestige. You get a good influx of additional hit points due to the much larger hit die. You get some additional AC which can be valuable for a caster. Maybe not as valuable as on a melee type, but still useful. And it gives faster access to the more useful dragon bloodline abilities.

That said, it's not for everyone. While I like the prestige class, I can understand why others would hate it.