GM Advice: Grab - How do you use it?

[GM 1990]

I'm posting this here rather than Rules Questions because I'm interested in how other GMs use this, not necessarily RAW, but have you tweaked it to enhance encounters.

I've used monsters with grab in several encounters over the last year, including reskinning a few monsters to meet the encounter effect I had in mind.

PRD Grab wrote:

Grab (Ex) If a creature with this special attack hits with the indicated attack (usually a claw or bite attack), it deals normal damage and attempts to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. Unless otherwise noted, grab can only be used against targets of a size equal to or smaller than the creature with this ability. If the creature can use grab on creatures of other sizes, it is noted in the creature's Special Attacks line. The creature has the option to conduct the grapple normally, or simply use the part of its body it used in the grab to hold the opponent. If it chooses to do the latter, it takes a –20 penalty on its CMB check to make and maintain the grapple, but does not gain the grappled condition itself. A successful hold does not deal any extra damage unless the creature also has the constrict special attack. If the creature does not constrict, each successful grapple check it makes during successive rounds automatically deals the damage indicated for the attack that established the hold. Otherwise, it deals constriction damage as well (the amount is given in the creature's descriptive text).

However, the bolded part seems pointless, but if I've done the math wrong or don't understand it right please explain.

As an example, a CR1 octopus has a CMB of +5 to grapple, so either you roll d20+5 as a free action and if successful, also gain the grappled condition; or you roll d20-20+5 to avoid gaining the grappled condition. To succeed wouldn't a PCs CMD have to be 5 or less - and thus the monster could only succeed on a nat-20?

I've just always had the monster roll normal grapple (as free action), and if successful the PC is grappled, but the monster isn't. Otherwise, the Grab special feature seems a little pointless, except they get a free "chance" to grapple after striking with that limb.

While its not something that I use a lot, I like the PCs to fear those creatures that have tentacles, vines, or other means of holding onto them, and this seems a more effective way to make those unique monsters a little more uniquely fearful.

How do other GMs use it?

[ckdragons]

Many of those creatures with the Grab ability also have Constrict, which makes that ability particularly nasty.

Monster's action in a round: attack, damage, grab, constrict damage (automatic from successful grab), release grapple

Monster deals extra damage without the penalties of being grappled.

[Amanuensis]

You are right--the -20 penalty is harsh, but then again, it doesn't make a lot of sense for a Small octopus to grapple a Medium sized humanoid with only one or two tentacles while moving around and engaging other opponents (Fun fact: a Tiny octopus would actually be better at grappling, because it uses its Dex-modifier in placce of its Str-modifier). Even at higher levels, CR-appropiate creatures often don't have a chance to succeed at a combat maneuver check against a front-line PC with such a high penalty.

For creatures with multiple attacks, grappling is often a bad option (you cannot make or finish a full attack when grappled). In that case, it's often better to take the -20 penalty and finish the full attack (basically, grab becomes a rider effect that only triggers on a natural 20, not unlike a critical effect).

Remember that you can use multiple opponents to grapple, with each additional creature granting a cumulative +2 bonus to the check. Too bad that octopuses are solitary creatures ...

[Devilkiller]

I suspect that most other DMs, perhaps nearly all of them, use Grab the way it is written. This is a very powerful monster ability and doesn't need an upgrade. There are some monsters who can make the CMB check even with a -20, but even if there weren't I'd rather not power up every monster with Grab just to make a minor aspect of the ability seem more useful.

Grab gives you a +4 on CMB checks to grapple. That alone would make it pretty good. It also allows you to initiate a grapple without suffering an AoO, which is another decent ability. Monsters with Grab and Constrict can be absolutely terrifying against PCs who don't have Freedom of Movement.

[Ckorik]

Think of it this way - you don't have to take the -20 - and you don't have to make the grab until the last attack.

So your monster can...

Grab and constrict at full CMB after a move - then drop the grapple as a free action

Full attack and grab/constrict on last attack at full CMB - then drop the grapple as a free action

Choose to keep the grab without taking the condition - and thus getting a full attack/etc.

It's a nasty ability that is very very powerful and useful for a monster - the ones that typically *want* to hold a character with grab have the CMB to do it (Krakken etc.)