Armour Bonus and Armour enhancement Stacking

[Stephen Ede]

I'm wearing clothing with an Armour Bonus +0 and Enhancement +1
I activate the Wind Spirit Hex - Air Shiled which give me an Armour Bonus of +4.
Can I stack my +4 Armour Bonus from the Air Shield with the +1 Enhancement from the clothing.
The rules on stacking I can find suggest I can take the best Armour Enhancement bonus and the nest Armour Bonus I have and add them to my AC.

Thanks

Quote:

Stacking: Stacking refers to the act of adding together bonuses or penalties that apply to one particular check or statistic. Generally speaking, most bonuses of the same type do not stack. Instead, only the highest bonus applies. Most penalties do stack, meaning that their values are added together. Penalties and bonuses generally stack with one another, meaning that the penalties might negate or exceed part or all of the bonuses, and vice versa.

[Val'bryn2]

The enhancement is a bonus to the armor, not its own bonus. It turns the clothes into AC 1 armor, it doesn't turn the clothing into AC 0 items with a +1 bonus.

Besides, strictly speaking, you can't enchant clothes as magic armor, because they can never be masterwork armor. As a GM I'ld allow it, but strictly speaking it doesn't work.

[Gisher]

Val'bryn2 wrote:

The enhancement is a bonus to the armor, not its own bonus. It turns the clothes into AC 1 armor, it doesn't turn the clothing into AC 0 items with a +1 bonus.

Besides, strictly speaking, you can't enchant clothes as magic armor, because they can never be masterwork armor. As a GM I'ld allow it, but strictly speaking it doesn't work.

I'm going to guess that Stephen is using the Magical Vestment spell on his clothes.

[Baval]

Strictly RAW, it would technically work. While it is mentioned that the enhancement bonus is effectively an increase to the sturdiness of the armor, its still a separate bonus and so would stack.

That said, I wouldnt argue with my DM over this.

[Gisher]

Stephen Ede wrote:

I'm wearing clothing with an Armour Bonus +0 and Enhancement +1

I activate the Wind Spirit Hex - Air Shiled which give me an Armour Bonus of +4.
Can I stack my +4 Armour Bonus from the Air Shield with the +1 Enhancement from the clothing.
The rules on stacking I can find suggest I can take the best Armour Enhancement bonus and the nest Armour Bonus I have and add them to my AC.

Thanks

Quote:

Stacking: Stacking refers to the act of adding together bonuses or penalties that apply to one particular check or statistic. Generally speaking, most bonuses of the same type do not stack. Instead, only the highest bonus applies. Most penalties do stack, meaning that their values are added together. Penalties and bonuses generally stack with one another, meaning that the penalties might negate or exceed part or all of the bonuses, and vice versa.

You can not transfer the +1 Enhancement bonus to Air Shield. Only the 'item' with the highest total Armor Bonus counts. So you have your clothes with a +1 total bonus and Air Shield with a total +4 bonus. Only the +4 bonus gets applied to your total AC.

[Imbicatus]

Baval wrote:

Strictly RAW, it would technically work. While it is mentioned that the enhancement bonus is effectively an increase to the sturdiness of the armor, its still a separate bonus and so would stack.

That said, I wouldnt argue with my DM over this.

If you cast magic vestment on clothes, it would not work, only the wind hex would work.

Some conjured armor would be a valid target to be enhanced by magic vestment directly though. Wood Armor from the wood oracle, for example.

However, The Wind Shaman's Air Barrier hex does not create a suit of armor, it only creates a shell of air that grants an armor bonus, so it's not a valid target for magic vestment. Just granting an armor bonus does not mean the effect is actually armor.

Quote:

Air Barrier (Su): The shaman creates an invisible shell of air that grants her a +4 armor bonus to AC.

[Stephen Ede]

Actually I was looking at the automatic Progression rules -
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/other-rules/automatic-bonus-progressi on

To those who said that an Enhancement bonus increases the Armour rather than been a bonus of it's own I would point out the rules are pretty clear on this. An Enhancement Bonus to Armour is a seperate thing from an Armour Bonus.

Now while I wouldn't argue with my GM if he said no (I don't generally argue with my GM on stuff like that anyway) I want to check that I'm reading the rules correctly technically before I raise it with him.

If only the item or feature with the highest combination of Armour and Armour Enhancement Bonus apply can someone cite the rules that refer to this.

Thanks

[Baval]

Imbicatus wrote:

Baval wrote:

Strictly RAW, it would technically work. While it is mentioned that the enhancement bonus is effectively an increase to the sturdiness of the armor, its still a separate bonus and so would stack.

That said, I wouldnt argue with my DM over this.

If you cast magic vestment on clothes, it would not work, only the wind hex would work.

Some conjured armor would be a valid target to be enhanced by magic vestment directly though. Wood Armor from the wood oracle, for example.

However, The Wind Shaman's Air Barrier hex does not create a suit of armor, it only creates a shell of air that grants an armor bonus, so it's not a valid target for magic vestment. Just granting an armor bonus does not mean the effect is actually armor.

Quote:

Air Barrier (Su): The shaman creates an invisible shell of air that grants her a +4 armor bonus to AC.

I agree with everything after the first sentence, and to a point i agree with the first sentence as well, but as I said technically the enhancement bonus on the clothing would be the highest enhancement bonus, and the armor bonus of the air barrier would be the highest armor bonus, so the two would work together.

Though as I said, this is a very strict RAW reading, and certainly not intended. The fluff of enhancement bonuses call out that they are enhancing the toughness of the armor in question, so by that should be indistinguishable from an increase of the items own armor bonus.

[Imbicatus]

It's not fluff, it's specifically called out in the description of Armor Class in the combat chapter of the CRB.

Enhancement Bonuses wrote:

Enhancement bonuses apply to your armor to increase the armor bonus it provides.

[Gisher]

Stephen Ede wrote:

Actually I was looking at the automatic Progression rules -

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/other-rules/automatic-bonus-progressi on *

Interesting. But the end result is the same for the Automatic Bonus Progression as it would be for the Magic Vestment spell. Either way, the +1 clothes and +4 Air Shield results in a total +4 bonus to AC.

Stephen Ede wrote:

To those who said that an Enhancement bonus increases the Armour rather than been a bonus of it's own I would point out the rules are pretty clear on this. An Enhancement Bonus to Armour is a seperate thing from an Armour Bonus.

It is true that Enhancement bonuses are different than Armor Bonuses, but Enhancement Bonuses to Armor are applied to the armor - not to you. So your armor (or clothing in this case) can have an Enhancement Bonus, but that Enhancement Bonus only affects that item and can't be used to enhance anything else.

Stephen Ede wrote:

Now while I wouldn't argue with my GM if he said no (I don't generally argue with my GM on stuff like that anyway) I want to check that I'm reading the rules correctly technically before I raise it with him.

If only the item or feature with the highest combination of Armour and Armour Enhancement Bonus apply can someone cite the rules that refer to this.

Thanks

Imbicatus cited the critical sentence. Enhancement Bonuses to Armor apply to the armor only. They can not be transferred to anything else.

*Side Note: You will notice that the link you pasted is now non-functional because a space was added in the middle of it. The system does this to prevent spamming. This is one of the reasons that it is better to use active links like this one. The instructions can be found below by clicking the 'Show' button next to "How to format your text." :)

[Baval]

Imbicatus wrote:

It's not fluff, it's specifically called out in the description of Armor Class in the combat chapter of the CRB.

Enhancement Bonuses wrote:

Enhancement bonuses apply to your armor to increase the armor bonus it provides.

So it does, I was reading the description of enhancement bonuses.

Further, Gishers reading also makes sense of enhancement bonuses being applied to the armor and not to you.

Therefore, I rescind my argument.