Familiar in opened bag of holding

[DarkPhoenixx]

Bag of holding wrote:

If living creatures are placed within the bag, they can survive for up to 10 minutes, after which time they suffocate.

Portable Hole wrote:

The only air in the hole is that which enters when the hole is opened. It contains enough air to supply one Medium creature or two Small creatures for 10 minutes.

Am i safe to assume that air enters into opened Bag of Holding and if a familiar put into it the familiar will not suffocate as long as bag is not closed fully?

[GM 1990]

The issue would seem to be the description says 10 minutes of air once you are placed inside of it. It doesn't talk about fully opened/partially closed etc, or offer any type of clause "unless the hole / bag is left open or partially open."

Therefore, the simple book answer would seem to be "no". As it says, they survive for up to 10 minutes, and no provision for leaving the bag or hole open.

The issue (not explained in the game rules) is what actually constitutes opening the portal between the two planes? Is it unfolding the PH or pulling open the bag (like taking a lid off a box or opening a normal bag's end). Or is the portal between planes not actual "opened" until something crosses it - like the surface of water, and thus oxygen doesn't cross the portal just by leaving the hole unfolded or the bag untied. No matter how tight you fold/tie either they're not air or water tight, so if solid, liquid or gaseous matter can pass across the threshold of its own accord, then technically the 10minute rule wouldn't need to be stated. And in addition to air being able to drift across the portal (even if tied up very tight or folded up very tightly), then water would also be able to and if you took either underwater they would flood and fill to capacity. That doesn't seem to make sense in game.

So, I believe the portal thresholds work on a principal like this - someone sentient has to intentionally move something across the boundary.

It seems that since both discuss a 10 minute limit, there is some game balance in mind here. They're not intended to be used as long term "habitable areas" either for a PC or another living organism/familiar/companion, while at the same time allowing for creative uses to sneak something alive into or out of an area by hiding it (for 10 minutes or less) inside this type of extra dimensional space.

The easy answer would just be to never let anything over 10 minutes work (unless the thing inside the space had another means of breathing).

However, I would probably rule going over 10 minutes (and how they work around the rule) on a case by case basis. For example, using the portal only open when a creature pushes something across the boundary, in theory you could just push something across and pull back out every 9 minutes or so, thus recycling the air supply. Of course, this might look suspicious, or you could get waylaid and the object inside would be at risk of suffocation. I'd not allow some kind of shenanigans such as leaving something 1/2 in and 1/2 out of the bag thus "continually" keeping the threshold broke / open. Or if I did, that may have some other possible consequences that I'd explain to the PCs before they try it.

[DarkPhoenixx]

Hmm, what about Bottle of Air? Does the air leak from the bottle, or only way to get it is to suck on the bottle (standard action)? I dont really feel like making life support aparatus to allow my familiar survive the night of sleep.

Tho now that i think about it, it would be fun encounter should one try to steal something from the bag.

[GM 1990]

DarkPhoenixx wrote:

Hmm, what about Bottle of Air? Does the air leak from the bottle, or only way to get it is to suck on the bottle (standard action)? I dont really feel like making life support aparatus to allow my familiar survive the night of sleep.

Tho now that i think about it, it would be fun encounter should one try to steal something from the bag.

PRD Bottle of Air wrote:

The bottle can even be shared by multiple characters who pass it around. Breathing out of the bottle is a standard action, but a character so doing can then act for as long as she can hold her breath.

Sounds like BoA is intended to be used similar to scuba-diver's sharing 1 regulator. you inhale from the bottle, and if you have to remove it from your mouth to pass to a buddy, you have to hold your breath. So unless you rig up some kind of mask for your familiar connected to a bottle of air, the bottle itself wouldn't pump air into the extra dimensional space.

[Melkiador]

Necklace of Adaptation
But that's 9000 gold.

[Gisher]

Why do you want to keep your Familiar in a Bag of Holding?

[DarkPhoenixx]

Melkiador wrote:

Necklace of Adaptation

But that's 9000 gold.

That sounds nice.

Gisher wrote:

Why do you want to keep your Familiar in a Bag of Holding?

Cos its Liminal Sprite, it have restrictions on places it can sleep in and extradimensional space is convenient one.

[Cevah]

Sounds like the Liminal Sprite is an improved familiar. Get a Familiar Satchel
Price: 25 gp.

/cevah

[Gisher]

DarkPhoenixx wrote:

Melkiador wrote:

Necklace of Adaptation

But that's 9000 gold.

That sounds nice.

Gisher wrote:

Why do you want to keep your Familiar in a Bag of Holding?

Cos its Liminal Sprite, it have restrictions on places it can sleep in and extradimensional space is convenient one.

Ah, Liminal Sprites. That is such a complicated restriction that they have.

Bestiary 5 wrote:

An ancestral curse hangs over liminal sprites that prevents them from sleeping either inside a building or outside in the open. Fortunately for these sprites, a loophole exists that allows them to find rest within the external features of a building. As a result, liminal sprites make their homes under eaves, porches, and staircases.

Sleeping in a box or bag won't work because those aren't exterior features of a building. (Honestly the curse woldn't be much of a problem if it could be circumvented that easily.) Similarly, I don't see how the extra-dimensional space reached through a Bag of Holding qualifies as an "external feature of a building." They might be able to find shelter under some parts of a Hunter's Tree Fort or a Secure Shelter.

[Melkiador]

Gisher wrote:

Bestiary 5 wrote:

An ancestral curse hangs over liminal sprites that prevents them from sleeping either inside a building or outside in the open. Fortunately for these sprites, a loophole exists that allows them to find rest within the external features of a building. As a result, liminal sprites make their homes under eaves, porches, and staircases.

Sleeping in a box or bag won't work because those aren't exterior features of a building. (Honestly the curse woldn't be much of a problem if it could be circumvented that easily.) Similarly, I don't see how the extra-dimensional space reached through a Bag of Holding qualifies as an "external feature of a building."

It never says they can only find rest "within the external features of a building". It just lists that as a loophole. Anything else that fulfills the conditions of not "either inside a building or outside in the open" would simply be another loophole.

[Orfamay Quest]

Melkiador wrote:

Gisher wrote:

Bestiary 5 wrote:

An ancestral curse hangs over liminal sprites that prevents them from sleeping either inside a building or outside in the open. Fortunately for these sprites, a loophole exists that allows them to find rest within the external features of a building. As a result, liminal sprites make their homes under eaves, porches, and staircases.

Sleeping in a box or bag won't work because those aren't exterior features of a building. (Honestly the curse woldn't be much of a problem if it could be circumvented that easily.) Similarly, I don't see how the extra-dimensional space reached through a Bag of Holding qualifies as an "external feature of a building."

It never says they can only find rest "within the external features of a building". It just lists that as a loophole. Anything else that fulfills the conditions of not "either inside a building or outside in the open" would simply be another loophole.

Yeah, as I see it, anything that is neither inside a building nor exposed to the sky ("outside in the open") would qualify.

Give them a sleeping bag or a parasol and you're within the letter of the law. (And fey are very much into the "letter of the law" thing.)

[BlackOuroboros]

Just cast Merge with Familiar and let it sleep inside of you.

[Cevah]

For a mere 7,500 gp, you can add Hosteling to your armor.

Hosteling wrote:

While stored, the animal is sleeping

Works for animal companions, familiars, and mounts also.

/cevah