The Net of No Escape

[Cuup]

I'm building an NPC who will be utilizing the Net and Trident feat group, and I got thinking: just how nasty can I make these Net antics?

My main goal in this experiment is to prevent the target from escaping once it gets ensnared. The Net will have the Anchoring, Ghost Touch, and Spell Storing (with Dimensional Anchor) properties, which will prevent the target from physically escaping (Anchoring), Escaping via turning incorporeal (Ghost Touch), or teleporting away ((Spell Storing with Dimensional Anchor).

I'm looking for other avenues I may have missed. I know Gaseous Form still works against it, but I can't think how I would be able to cover that. Thoughts?

[Claxon]

The main thing is that no matter the last ditch effort will be cutting through your net.

Rope has a hardness of 0 and a net has 5 hp.

So basically against any character with a melee weapon the worst case for them is to cut through your net.

This will work well on the full caster types though.

[Fuzzy-Wuzzy]

Instead of (or as a backup for) the spell storing, you could make the trident part of the combo phase locking. And make it impervious so it doesn't break so easily.

[Cuup]

Claxon wrote:

The main thing is that no matter the last ditch effort will be cutting through your net.

Rope has a hardness of 0 and a net has 5 hp.

So basically against any character with a melee weapon the worst case for them is to cut through your net.

This will work well on the full caster types though.

Sounds like I need to get a net made out of Bloodvine Rope, though even then, you have a fantastic point about how easy it is to simply break the net...

Fuzzy-Wuzzy, good idea with the Impervious Enchantment! I considered phase locking, but it's for one round per hit for a +2 Enchantment, vs. several minutes after the first hit for a +1 Enchantment, so long as I recharge the Spell Storing, which sounds like the better deal to me.

[Claxon]

Keep in mind, while this can work it will be very expensive to have a weapon with all the enchants on it.

[Ridiculon]

I know this would be homebrew but i think a chain net would work better, the normal soft nets that pathfinder has by default are just too easy to break to be worth enchanting at so much expense normally

[ProfPotts]

Use a snag net and poison the barbs?

[_Ozy_]

Ridiculon wrote:

I know this would be homebrew but i think a chain net would work better, the normal soft nets that pathfinder has by default are just too easy to break to be worth enchanting at so much expense normally

Heck, make it out of adamantine and give it the 'impervious' enchantment as well.

[The Skeptical Gnome]

Impervious is all well and good at lower levels, but if we're talking long term, an impervious enchant would only go so far before enemies just treated those double hit points like nothing. There's also the matter of size. I imagine that a net wield able by a medium character could at the very best catch a creature of Large size, and even then I'd only say stuff on the lower end of that scale. There's also the matter of enemies just destroying the net. Fire comes to mind, as well as acid, you get the idea.

[Oxylepy]

Make the net out of chain. Just because it isn't in the rules doesn't mean it can't exist. It's seriously just really really heavy netting.

[The Skeptical Gnome]

There'd probably be some penalties to using it though if it were made out of chain link. As far as gaseous form goes, I can't really see a way for the net itself to prevent them from escaping. I'd advise an item of some type or other with the expressed purpose of negating gaseous form, or some effect on your trident.

[Pizza Lord]

I made a net out of darkleaf cloth, I believe it was. That was one of the few special materials I could find that actually worked (no 3rd party stuff). Since nets aren't mostly metal, obviously things like adamantine weren't options, just like a wooden weapon like a bow wouldn't be allowed to be metal without an express ruling. While darkleaf cloth says leather, fur, or hide I don't think too many GMs will deny it (as opposed to mithril or darkwood nets)

Darkleaf is hardness 10 and 20 hit points per inch of thickness. Since most nets are likely made from rope, and rope is hardness 0 and 2 hit points per inch, it was reasonably assumed that since a typical net has 5 hit points, that a reasonable ruling is to assume a 2.5 inch of thickness/durability to a net. So 2.5 inches of darkleaf cloth would be about 50 hit points (40 if you want to round the half-inch down, but I don't think you should). That's a lot of hit points though, so some people might get leery of it.

I then made it large sized. This effectively doubled the hit points right there. It did give a penalty to attack, but then nets are touch attacks anyway.

Also, instead of too many fancy enchantments, I just went with the +1, +2, etc. enhancements. While this doesn't give you fancy ctuff like ghost touch, each plus of enchantment does add +2 to hardness and +10 to hit points. There is no strict formula for the enhancements increases the the Break or Escape Artist checks, but I did find some examples of other items that had increased difficulties, like manacles just being masterwork or other bindings that had higher DCs. I think it was about a +2 DC to those per +1 enhancement (though that's not for sure, since my memory is hazy).

I didn't know about the Impervious property at the time, but now that I look at it, that's a solid addition and I see it's just a flat cost, not a +1 bonus or anything, so that would be incredible (assuming you can get the hit point math right) and it even adds to break DCs.

This is subject to discretion obviously, but I think it was something like:
large +2 darkleaf cloth net hardness: 14 (10 base + 4 (enhancement bonus), hit points: 120 (50 material/inch base + 50 double hit points size + 20 (enhancement bonus, not doubled for size).
I guess with Impervious it would double all those hit points and the hardness bonus from enhancements, so another +4 hardness and 20 hit points.

The cost would be roughly 12,840 gp: 40 (large net base) + 300 (masterwork) + 8,000 (+2 enhancement) + 4,500 (12 lbs. darkleaf, though it will only weigh 6 lbs.)
So it wasn't something easy to get (though crafting it cut this in half). If adding Impervious, that's another 3,000 gp. cost.

It's certainly a doable item and anyone who thinks they're just gonna tear or cut through it will likely waste several rounds before just trying to Escape Artist.

[ProfPotts]

Remember that a Spell Storing weapon needs to both strike and damage the target to trigger the spell, and that it only stores spells up to level 3 (so I guess you're pulling Dimensional Anchor from the Summoner's spell list, right?). It may be easier just to stick something like a Hold Person spell in a Spell Storing snag net (assuming the idea is to entangle and then damage). Having a Silence spell cast on the net before you chuck it could help prevent magical escapes for a while too.

[ProfPotts]

Actually, you could try this:

The Net Adept Feat makes a net a one-handed melee weapon with a 10ft reach. Make the net-user a Magus. Cast a frigid touch spell and spellstrike with the net - no save, 4d6 cold damage and the target is staggered for 1 round. A hit with a net entangles the target and either escaping or bursting the net require a full-round action, which a staggered target can't perform, so you've got 'em for at least one round extra...

It's not a permanent hold, but it's a nice opener... and there must be some way to keep 'em staggered... nauseated works too.

[Cuup]

Good advice, thanks all!

ProfPotts, Wow good idea casting Silence on the Net, that's a good hurtle to add for casters. Thanks for pointing out that Spell Storing requires the weapon damages the target (even though that's a bit frustrating - I already hit; was that literally just added to prevent nets from having fun??), and the Magus Spellstrike combo is pretty slick.

[Velxir]

I think you could use the Warpriest or the Advanced Weapon Training to give your net some damage as well.