Clarification on Treat Deadly wounds

[Kris Brakke]

My DM and I have run in to an interpretation difference on the treat deadly wounds skill and I want to clarify it.

The way I read it:
If you want to treat deadly wounds with a healer's kit, you can spend two uses and get +2 to the check. If you only have one use you get +0 (+2 from the kit, -2 from lacking one use) and if you do not have a kit you get -4 from lacking two uses.

The way he reads it:
If you want to treat deadly wounds with a full healers kit you get -2 (You use a healer's kit for +2, then spend two uses, then get -4 because the kit is lacking two uses). If you then use the same kit to treat deadly wounds you get -6 (+2 kit, -8 for the kit missing four uses now) and so on to a total of -18 when you use the last two uses. Additionally you cannot treat deadly wounds without a healer's kit.

The latter strikes me as too high of a penalty, but after reading it a few times, I can see why he would think it. My brief searches have shown me this is not a question people have asked, and the few things I have found imply the max -4.

If anyone can provide clarity that would be great.

[thewastedwalrus]

Your DM is close, except in the fact that it only matters if your kit is missing uses before you make the check, not after. For example, a full kit would give a +2, missing 2 uses gives a -2, etc.

[Murdock Mudeater]

Such a strange interpretation.

Healer's kit, like a wand, has 10 uses. Treating deadly wounds requires 2 of those. If you only have 1 of 10 uses left, you can attempt the check at -2 (+0 with the kit). The GM is welcome to add an improvised penalty to account for the missing use.

If you lack the healer's kit entirely (or have 0 of 10 uses), you take -4 for not having the 2 uses, then GM adds an improvised penalty for whatever you decide to use instead of the healer's kit.

Treating Deadly wounds can be done without a healer's kit, but the GM should impose penalties for using improper/improvised tools.

[Gullyble Dwarf - Lvl 7 DM]

The way you read it is correct and the only way I've ever seen it done.

I'm not sure I'd apply a further penalty for improvised tool w/o a kit as that is likely what the -4 represents. Usually the negative for improvised tools is -2 if I recall, so think the negatives as is are fine.

Addendum - Well, Craft penalties line up with -2, but Disable Device gives you a +10 to DC w/o proper tools, so...GM discretion. I'd still go with the -4 being sufficient assuming you have some materials that would work for the job.

[Hogeyhead]

Your interpretation is the only one I've ever seen used, and his interpretation is in no way balanced, and RAW is on your side. The way it's worded it say 'missing from your check' not 'missing from the healers kit'.

[Murdock Mudeater]

Gullyble Dwarf - Lvl 7 DM wrote:

I'd still go with the -4 being sufficient assuming you have some materials that would work for the job.

That's basically it. If you lack the healer's kit, but still have adequate materials for the job, then -4.

Not having the kit doesn't mean you can attempt the skill without anything. You need to replace the uses with rough equivalents, and depending on how adequate the replacements are, will determine further penalties.