Support bard


Advice


People probably post/ask about this a bunch, but this is what I got so far, let me know what you think/would change

Bard
Human
20point-buy
Str(7)
Dex(12)
Con(12)
Int(16)
Wis(10)
Cha(16)(+2)

Feats: lingering performance, flag bearer

Traits: two-world magic(disrupt undead) maestro of society

Spells:

Level 0: Daze, disrupt undead, resistance, mending, detect magic, prestidigitation (+1 spell from human favored class and disrupt undead from trait)

Level 1: saving finale, liberating command

Items: longspear, chainshirt, Wand of hideous laughter and ioun tourch

Sovereign Court

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I probably wouldn't bother jacking up the INT that high. A 14 is more than high enough and leaves you points for a 12 WIS & 10 STR. (For a bard - even a 14 might be overkill.)

As a trait - I'd suggest Armor Expert so that you can eventually wear a mithril breastplate without spending a feat on medium armor prof.

I wouldn't bother with Liberating Command at low levels - it's a bit of a niche spell when you only have 2 spells known.

Are you planning to use any offensive spell-casting which take advantage of your high Charisma? If you plan on casting only buffs, I wouldn't bother with such a high CHA either, but with the Charisma where it is you could take advantage of your solid DCs to use Illusion spells and debuffs. Though - if you are going that way, you may consider going gnome for the +1 DC to illusions.

Of note - until you get the magic banner - you can't use a longspear & flag bearer at the same time.


I second dropping your Int and boosting your strength and wisdom, I also prefer a higher dex, but if you are going to make sure you stay out of melee and use spells/don't mind ranged attacks or ranged touch spells not hitting as often your dex is fine.

with proper use of versatile performance and having half your level apply to knowledge skills you can spread your skill points out alot.

Saving finale is amazing, and I love it, especially if your GM rules that lingering performance continues after the spell use.

I personally love grease for a first level spell, and it's useful at higher levels as well. You can use it to give a bonus to your party members escaping entanglement or grapple, you can use it to disarm an enemy, you can cause difficult terrain and potentially give your rogue friend a sneak attack, and you can potentially trip an opponent.

Sovereign Court

I agree with Charon's little helper between Bard class skills, human race, and versatile performance you can have skills locked up at an INT 10 or even lower. Others will chime in about how to min/max stats better, but I like to average out stats with a bard especially if im in a "support" role. I like to diversify my abilities, skills, and feats to do whatever the party needs. I'd try this;

Str 10
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 14
Cha 16 (+2)


Wand of hideous laughter? Isn't that kind of expensive?

Check out some of the alchemical items. There are some good debuffs there.

With that charisma, make sure to get a nice, very high intimidate score. It's an awesome debuff.

I'm a big fan of oratory for your performance because of the Versatile Performance ability.


MeanMutton wrote:

Wand of hideous laughter? Isn't that kind of expensive?

Check out some of the alchemical items. There are some good debuffs there.

With that charisma, make sure to get a nice, very high intimidate score. It's an awesome debuff.

I'm a big fan of oratory for your performance because of the Versatile Performance ability.

Level 1 spell so 750g


Support bards are tricky. The problem is they have weak action economy if they can't attack because they can end up passing several rounds.

Consider level 7

Your first round will be Haste and getting your song up (great action economy). You will do this twice before you run out of hastes. This leaves you with 8 spells. You have great swift/immediate action spells (finale spells), you also get bladed dash (a good action economy spell), and you will also have to do some out of combat casting. Those 8 spells vanish quickly. What will you do with the rest of your turns?

So you should build something that gives you something to do with the rest of your standard actions. Level 7 is when you start devoting more to casting but having other resources is better because you want to contribute until you get to higher levels.

I would recommend building in some strength for an enforcer or aid another (combat reflexes, body guard, helpful trait (halfling)) build. Even just investing in improving aid another will make you a lot more valuable.

I like something like this even for a support bard.

Stats: 15+2, 12, 14, 11, 10, 14
Traits: Savant (+2 to preform Oratory, Comedy or Keyboard), Adopted Halfing: Helpful

Spells:

Level 0: Daze, Read Magic, Message, Detect Magic, Prestidigitation

Level 1: Saving finale, Liberating command

Items: longspear, chainshirt, Wand of Cure Light Wounds and Ioun Torch

How to play:

Song first round.

Flank and Aid for +6 to attack after that.

Feats to consider:
Arcane Strike (Gloves of Arcane Striking), Combat Reflexes, Body Guard, Enforcer, Deific Obedience (Irori).

This will free up a lot of your spells.


Your stats leave you nothing to do in combat. Personally my recommendation is figure out what you're doing in combat and build to that, then add extra stuff afterwards.

Examples of things to do are
Aid another, not the best but it's something.
Ranged attacking
Melee attacking
High AC to get into flanking position
Making your cantrips have a good chance at success and then spellcasting later levels.

Because if you don't have a plan of what to do rounds 2+ of a fight, you're in trouble.

Sovereign Court

Chess Pwn wrote:


Aid another, not the best but it's something.

If you take the Helpful trait (the halfling racial one) you can get Aid Another up to +4, and at that point it isn't a horrible use of your action. If you're also buffing and being a decent skill-monkey, you're pulling your weight.


Charon's Little Helper wrote:
As a trait - I'd suggest Armor Expert so that you can eventually wear a mithril breastplate without spending a feat on medium armor prof.

While this frees up the ACP, it does nothing for ASF.

Mithral will drop ASF to 10% for spells with somatic components. Which is most of them.

A mithral quickdraw shield, however, will add 0 ACP 0 ASF and +1 AC. Easily enchanted for more AC.

/cevah

Sovereign Court

Cevah wrote:
Charon's Little Helper wrote:
As a trait - I'd suggest Armor Expert so that you can eventually wear a mithril breastplate without spending a feat on medium armor prof.

While this frees up the ACP, it does nothing for ASF.

Mithral will drop ASF to 10% for spells with somatic components. Which is most of them.

A mithral quickdraw shield, however, will add 0 ACP 0 ASF and +1 AC. Easily enchanted for more AC.

/cevah

Bards don't have ASF in light armor.

And I'm assuming you're referencing the 'trick' of taking off and putting back on a mithril quickdraw shield as free actions in the same turn. No GM with a brain should allow anyone to do that.


Breastplate is not light armor. ASF applies.

Since the quickdraw shield can be (un)equipped as a swift and not a free action, I am not referring to such tricks.

EDIT: ASF is specific to the type of armor, not to the class of armor. Mithral can remove limitations based on the class of armor, not the limitations of the type of armor.

/cevah


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Cevah wrote:

Breastplate is not light armor. ASF applies.

Since the quickdraw shield can be (un)equipped as a swift and not a free action, I am not referring to such tricks.

EDIT: ASF is specific to the type of armor, not to the class of armor. Mithral can remove limitations based on the class of armor, not the limitations of the type of armor.

/cevah

HEY GUYS, LOOK WHAT I FOUND

FAQ - Mithral Armor wrote:

Mithral armor: What exactly does it mean when it says mithral armor is counted as one category lighter for “other limitations?”

This means that mithral armor allows its wearer to use it when her own class features or special abilities demand her to wear lighter armor; in other words, the character wearing the armor is less limited. For example, a bard can cast spells in mithral breastplate without arcane spell failure, a barbarian can use her fast movement in mithral fullplate, a ranger can use his combat style in mithral fullplate, brawlers, swashbucklers, and gunslingers can keep their nimble bonus in mithral breastplate, rogues keep evasion in mithral breastplate, a brawler can flurry in mithral breastplate, characters without Endurance can sleep in mithral breastplate without becoming fatigued, and so on. It does not change the armor’s actual category, which means that you can still store a creature one size category larger in a hosteling mithral fullplate, and you can’t enhance a mithral breastplate with special abilities that require it to be light armor, like brawling (though you could enhance it with special abilities that require it to be medium armor), and so on.


The developers have indicated that mithral makes armor the lighter category for everything except proficiency, pretty much.

Grand Lodge

And what magic armor properties you can apply.

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