So from reading various threads and looking at various options, I've come up with a basic skeleton, but I still feel like it could use some work, perhaps in feats I may have missed or other character options entirely. I have the social aspect pretty much worked out, so I'll be focusing on the combat options.
1- Two-Weapon Fighting feat
2- Arcane Striker talent
3- Weapon finesse feat
5- Weapon focus(Mystic bolt) feat
I want the character to be dex based, since strength to damage isn't a thing for mystic bolts anyway, it means I can lower strength by a lot and rely on the light armor of the warlock in conjunction with high dexterity for my AC.
Notable spells are invisibility for helping with the startling appearance feature and chill touch because of "can sling projectiles of magical energy at will by shooting a bolt or [u]touching her foe[/u].", but I'm having trouble figuring out more spells that lend to the concept, especially since the warlock doesn't have the action economy that the magus does.
My main problem with the build is basically that I seem to be running out of options fairly quickly. I can take piranha strike, but because I have to forgo the "touch attacks" portion of mystic bolts to make piranha strike work, it doesn't seem worth it. I took a look at possible style feats, but I couldn't find one that seems to complement this particular build very well either.
What direction can I take this? Or possibly what bits do you think I might be missing?
The first thing that springs to mind is the other TWF feats. If you have free feats, you could pick up some ranged related stuff for switch hitting, especially as weapon focus applies to both.
Yeah, the other TWF feats are a matter of course. But improved doesn't come until level 9 (or 8 if you retrain an old one), and greater doesn't come until level 15. Both due to the 3/4 BaB progression.
In addition, other feats like double slice aren't necessary or flat out don't work with the warlock, which leaves very few options that aren't actually two-weapon fighting itself.
For free feats, I think I would more prefer focusing on the spellcasting half of the character, if possible.
I was looking into it, and some interesting feats that presented themselves to me were Force Dash, Quicken spell later on for action economy purposes, and perhaps eldritch heritage. I haven't managed to look into the sorcerer bloodlines too closely, though, so I don't know anything that I can pick for eldritch heritage off the top of my head.
You're going to want a high dex for mystic bolts and a high int for spells. Trying to shoehorn cha for eldritch heritage is going to leave you MADder than a hatter.
I'd look at adding some utility to the bolts. Ranged trip + Ace Trip to bring down flyers perhaps.
Normally I would agree with you, but when I rolled stats with the GM I managed to get an array of 16, 16, 13, 12, 12, 11. This means that I can, for example, run a kitsune to compound the vigilante aspect, increase the dex, and push cha to 15, all while keeping int at the 16 I need for the 2/3 progression of spells.
However, I didn't really see any eldritch heritage options that jumped out at me, so probably won't go that way anyway.
What about intersting spell options that i may have missed? for example, I would really like bladed dash on this character, but that's unfortunately not on the wizard spell list.
When I made a warlock, I used light weapons that were enchanted with conductive and then just used normal combat feats to increase damage.
When I made a warlock, I used light weapons that were enchanted with conductive and then just used normal combat feats to increase damage.
That seemed super interesting at first glance, but I have two personal problems with it. First, it can only be activated once per round, and second, you lose the ability to hit against touch AC with it. Overall I think I'll do without any weapons on this character.
I would switch Weapon Finesse and TWFing, unless you're planning to TWF all ranged bolts for the first 2 levels.
If you need to add spells to your list, Samsaran is the way to go.
Of those choices, I actually think I like TWF better. Being able to reliably deal 2d6 damage per round at range is better, imo, than only getting 1d6 per round, or 2d6 if I take turns off and spend a chill touch to do it at melee.
I am definitely looking at samsaran, but I'm hoping to find options from the wizard/socrerer list that don't pigeonhole me into a single race choice.
Were you planing on focusing only on twf w/ touch attacks? I don't see any restriction on str to damage for a normal ac attack w/ Mystic Bolts. Did I miss something?
Here's my fledgling plan so far for my melee Warlock ...
1: TWF (Weapon Finesse @ 1st retrained @ 2nd)
2: Lethal Grace Talent (Weapon Finesse + 1/2 level in damage)
3: Piranha Strike
5:
6: Signature Weapon Talent (Weapon Focus & Weapon Specialization @ 8th)As a side note, the Arcane Striker talent annoys the hell out of me. Getting Arcane Strike is good but getting the weapon special abilities @ 12th is insulting. How many other classes get the same trick @ 5th level?
By my reading, the blades only seem to deal their own damage without your strength modifier. In addition, there were a few developer posts that indicated this to be the case as well. Let me see if I can't find that again.
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Johnny_Devo, I would like to thank you for this thread. I was looking at Warlock (and Magical Child) as options for my new Vigilante PFS character. Warlock seemed pretty cool as I was under the impression they could add Strength and Lethal Grace to damage. Finding out they can't is disappointing, but super important! Your post has been very informative. I will continue to keep an eye on this thread for ideas on how to make them effective. :)
Johnny_Devo, I would like to thank you for this thread. I was looking at Warlock (and Magical Child) as options for my new Vigilante PFS character. Warlock seemed pretty cool as I was under the impression they could add Strength and Lethal Grace to damage. Finding out they can't is disappointing, but super important! Your post has been very informative. I will continue to keep an eye on this thread for ideas on how to make them effective. :)
I'm thinking that most of the power is in the ability to hit against touch AC.
In addition, the warlock has quite the unique ability to combine two-weapon-fighting and rapid shot at range. Were I not trying to build a melee warlock, a ranged warlock would probably look something like...
Human warlock:
1R: Two-Weapon Fighting
1C: Point-Blank Shot
2V: Arcane striker
3C: Rapid Shot
5C: precise shot, though not so necessary if you're hitting against touch
6V: Signature weapon (mystic bolt)
7F: Open slot. Take whatever you want. Perhaps combine deadly aim with precise shot?
9F: Improved two-weapon Fighting
by level 3, you're launching 3 attacks at a -3 total penalty(dex not included), one against touch. If they all hit, 3d6+6 damage. At level 5, you're launching all against touch, for 3d6+12 damage.
At level 8, it goes up to 4 attacks, for a total of 4d6 + 32 damage. At level 9, it goes up to 5, 5d6 + 40 damage.
At level 12, it starts to get even crazier. It's now +3 damage for arcane strike, +1d6 for arcane striker, +2 for weapon specialization, +1 for point blank shot, +3 for a 12th level warlock. This is 2d6 + 9 per attack, on 5 attacks, for a total of 10d6+45 damage.
... Kinda makes me question why I'm so insistent on wanting to make a melee warlock, but there you have it.
EDIT: If I'm reading it correctly, you can also smack the damage from this item on top of everything.
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Thank you for the example build! You are very good at making the most of the archetype. :)
Their damage potential is nice via multi-attack stacking, but somewhat low taken individually. Elemental damage doesn't have to worry about DR, but it does have to worry about Resistance. Energy Resistances are very common, and the lack of significant static modifiers to damage (which would have been partially countered with Strength/Lethal Grace) really takes the sting out of Mystic Bolt.
For example, 1d6+2 three times is great when totaled at 3d6+6. But 1d6+2 three times minus Resist 5 for each attack is not ideal. Minus Resist 10 for each attack is, well, zero. That may seem drastic for Level 3, but unfortunately I have fought Resist 10 enemies at Level 1 before. As I understand, Elemental Weapon Property d6s are a separate source and not "compounded." A Resist 5 negates all rolls lower than 6. A Resist 10 again negates all of it. When applied to multiple stages of your attack, the net result can be very low. Warlocks need the capability to "punch through" or they will be hung out to dry by the majority of the Bestiaries.
The best bet seems to be Acid at first level as it has the fewest resistances and immunities. Then Fire for the second element, because it has the fewest dual immunities in regards to Acid. With an investment in TWF, I would also grab dual Cesti. It would help round out your damage types, but it seems a shame when you're playing an archetype called Warlock. C'est la vie!
Thank you for the example build! You are very good at making the most of the archetype. :)
Their damage potential is nice via multi-attack stacking, but somewhat low taken individually. Elemental damage doesn't have to worry about DR, but it does have to worry about Resistance. Energy Resistances are very common, and the lack of significant static modifiers to damage (which would have been partially countered with Strength/Lethal Grace) really takes the sting out of Mystic Bolt.
For example, 1d6+2 three times is great when totaled at 3d6+6. But 1d6+2 three times minus Resist 5 for each attack is not ideal. Minus Resist 10 for each attack is, well, zero. That may seem drastic for Level 3, but unfortunately I have fought Resist 10 enemies at Level 1 before. As I understand, Elemental Weapon Property d6s are a separate source and not "compounded." A Resist 5 negates all rolls lower than 6. A Resist 10 again negates all of it. When applied to multiple stages of your attack, the net result can be very low. Warlocks need the capability to "punch through" or they will be hung out to dry by the majority of the Bestiaries.
The best bet seems to be Acid at first level as it has the fewest resistances and immunities. Then Fire for the second element, because it has the fewest dual immunities in regards to Acid. With an investment in TWF, I would also grab dual Cesti. It would help round out your damage types, but it seems a shame when you're playing an archetype called Warlock. C'est la vie!
That is definitely a concern. Luckily, the warlock is also a caster! Slightly better than a magus at pure casting, I might add, due to access to the wizard spell list. pre 7, you can use that to overcome those shortcomings. For example, you might keep a burning hands handy for when you run into that guy who's resistant to acid, and a color spray for one who resists even both. In addition, you can also keep a bow handy to benefit from all but one of your combat feats. This includes arcane strike. In fact, instead of dual wielding cestus, you could take a pair of machetes or kukris. Remember that the warlock still has the vigilante's weapon proficiency. Keeping those weapons handy is also a super useful way to defend yourself in public in your social identity, as you're not using any of your vigilante stuff when doing so.
I'm thinking that most of the power is in the ability to hit against touch AC.In addition, the warlock has quite the unique ability to combine two-weapon-fighting and rapid shot at range.
While that definitely is the idea... That's less unique and more just a less accurate, lower damage (though maybe sense vitals can help that) gunslinger who makes fewer attacks.
You do have a gold and feat advantage over said gunslinger, but you can't really use that to narrow the gap more than a tiny bit.
The fact that you're 3/4th BAB and can never benefit from enhancement bonuses to attack rolls actually negates the advantage of targeting touch against a large number of enemies too.
Sense vitals is a great idea! Writing that down right now. It pairs beautifully with greater invisibility at later levels, and is something you'll want to go for anyway if you're trying to make the most of the vigilante's other features.
Thing about comparing the warlock to the gunslinger, though, is the warlock has spellcasting and the entire concept of the social identity over the gunslinger. I'd say it's more than fair that the gunslinger can deal more damage. There's also the flavor aspect: I love the idea of the warlock class, and I have absolutely no desire to make a gunslinger. What I want to talk about in this thread is how to make the most of the warlock, not who can do it better.EDIT: Sense vitals may not work with the warlock, depending on how you interpret it. It says that it works with a "manufactured" weapon. You can either say that the mystic bolts are conjured and not manufactured and therefore don't work, or you can say that the spell is simply saying "non-natural, non-unarmed" weapons.
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That is definitely a concern. Luckily, the warlock is also a caster! Slightly better than a magus at pure casting, I might add, due to access to the wizard spell list. pre 7, you can use that to overcome those shortcomings. For example, you might keep a burning hands handy for when you run into that guy who's resistant to acid, and a color spray for one who resists even both. In addition, you can also keep a bow handy to benefit from all but one of your combat feats. This includes...
I am grateful for the advice, Johnny_Devo! I really want to play one in PFS, so it's great to hear the good points of Warlock. It pays to be flexible in general, so I'll try not to consider it too much of a downside to have additional weapons alongside Mystic Bolt. The options Mystic Bolt gives you should reduce assumed gold investment in weapons. Admittedly dual weapons increases assumed gold investment. Taken together though, they should reasonably maintain wealth parity. I love Spellcasting, so that side of the Archetype is pure gold. Tough new character choices for my local Con this month. :)
I am grateful for the advice, Johnny_Devo! I really want to play one in PFS, so it's great to hear the good points of Warlock. It pays to be flexible in general, so I'll try not to consider it too much of a downside to have additional weapons alongside Mystic Bolt. The options Mystic Bolt gives you should reduce assumed gold investment in weapons. Admittedly dual weapons increases assumed gold investment. Taken together though, they should reasonably maintain wealth parity. I love Spellcasting, so that side of the Archetype is pure gold. Tough new character choices for my local Con this month. :)
That is definitely a concern. Luckily, the warlock is also a caster! Slightly better than a magus at pure casting, I might add, due to access to the wizard spell list. pre 7, you can use that to overcome those shortcomings. For example, you might keep a burning hands handy for when you run into that guy who's resistant to acid, and a color spray for one who resists even both. In addition, you can also keep a bow handy to benefit from all but one of your combat feats. This includes...
Personally, I think you don't have to invest much into those weapons. pre 7 you can afford your backup weapons to not be magical, and post 7 you have an additional damage type to get rid of most of your problems of mystic bolt being resisted. With that in mind, the price of two shortswords and a longbow is 96gp (including ammunition) total, which is much less than your expected wealth by level at even just level 2. This allows you to spend the rest of your budget on helpful magic items, a good set of armor, pearls of power, etc.
6: Signature Weapon Talent (Weapon Focus & Weapon Specialization @ 8th)
Sorry I have to say this, but the Signature Weapon Talent is only available for Avenger Vigilantes. Warlocks don't get any specialization sadly.
That is really mean, lethal grace would be THE vigilante talent for a warlock.Warlock seemed pretty cool as I was under the impression they could add Strength and Lethal Grace to damage. Finding out they can't is disappointing, but super important!
Damn. There are very few things that work with this class, it seems.
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Damn. There are very few things that work with this class, it seems.
It's bad, but not all bad. It seems that the elemental d6s from the blast and weapon properties are totaled before Resistance. You can probably punch through Resist 10 at least. Either at Level 12 or with Deliquescent Gloves if you chose Acid.
Edit: Melee is probably beyond salvaging compared to Ranged though, yeah.