In Pathfinder you only have half-orcs and orcs.
They were also not corrupted elves, well not in Pathfinder, or even 3.5.
In 3.X they are fey-like, which explain why nymph's resemble them to some extent.
In other fantasy settings the elves origin is dependent upon the creator of the material.
Each of the races mentioned are such overused staple terms that everyone has had their own version of them, with their own backstories and origins.
In this, elves are an old, high magic race that could even travel between worlds. Orcs, on the other hand, come from the underdark, driven to the surface by the dwarves' mad 'quest for the sky' during the age of darkness.
The only real corrupted elves in this setting are drow, who were the ones that didn't want to abandon the planet during the age of darkness, and thus fled to the underdark and eventually became twisted by a mix of inbreeding and radiation... both in the scientific sense and the "mad gods live buried deep under the earth, and going near them is a bad idea" sense.
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They were also not corrupted elves, well not in Pathfinder, or even 3.5.
Middle Earth orcs were corrupted elves, IIRC. That might be what the OP is referring to.
Golarion orcs are Darklands natives that became dominant over the world during the Age of Darkness. When the darkness receded and humans could see more than five feet again the orcs lost their stranglehold and many of them retreated back to the Darklands, but obviously a great many of them stayed. With Golarion elves being natives of the First World the races could not be any more separate from each other in origin.
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With Golarion elves being natives of the First World the races could not be any more separate from each other in origin.
In the Golgarion setting, Elves are from another planet (and some still have partial access to an portal network called Elf Gates that can lead to other worlds), not from the First World. Gnomes are the ones from the First World here.
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And yes the Lord of the ring orc where elf. Don't know why.
That was one of the possible origins that Tolkien had for orcs (he had like half a dozen or something). Different books said (or implied) different things. Supposedly Tolkien began to dislike that particular origin, but never really did anything about it.
OK. By the way I was not implying any was wrong. I was just wondering what is up with the drastic differences.
And being one who likes Orc found it up setting that they sound so evil here. lol. I like the skyrim version my self. Yes in skyrim the are mean but in a more primitive tribe way.
And yes the Lord of the ring orc where elf. Don't know why.
Every(not 100%) writer likes to put his own spin on things. Many of the things in PF do not match the original source. The gorgon, as an example was not a bull-like creature from what I remember of mythology. :)
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Every(not 100%) writer likes to put his own spin on things. Many of the things in PF do not match the original source. The gorgon, as an example was not a bull-like creature from what I remember of mythology. :)OK. By the way I was not implying any was wrong. I was just wondering what is up with the drastic differences.
And being one who likes Orc found it up setting that they sound so evil here. lol. I like the skyrim version my self. Yes in skyrim the are mean but in a more primitive tribe way.
And yes the Lord of the ring orc where elf. Don't know why.
You can blame Gygax for that one, poor Catoblepas...
And yes the Lord of the ring orc where elf. Don't know why.
Because Illuvatar (creator god) wouldn't have made such a thing, being a total good guy, while Morgoth, maker and master of the orcs (and BBEG), couldn't have made them from scratch because only the creator can create a true new race. Cf Aule attempting to create a Dwarven race and producing only automatons until Illuvatar had mercy and ensouled them.
Presumably also "because it's cool!" But those are the in-world reasons it had to be that way. Similarly, trolls are corrupted Ents IIRC.
EDIT: Oh, but Morgoth did create Dragons in spite of this rule. Dunno how he did that. Maybe only bipedal races really count?
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And yes the Lord of the ring orc where elf. Don't know why.Because Illuvatar (creator god) wouldn't have made such a thing, being a total good guy, while Morgoth, maker and master of the orcs (and BBEG), couldn't have made them from scratch because only the creator can create a true new race. Cf Aule attempting to create a Dwarven race and producing only automatons until Illuvatar had mercy and ensouled them.
Presumably also "because it's cool!" But those are the in-world reasons it had to be that way. Similarly, trolls are corrupted Ents IIRC.
EDIT: Oh, but Morgoth did create Dragons in spite of this rule. Dunno how he did that. Maybe only bipedal races really count?
During Tax season he writes them off as "Living Siege Weapons".
RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
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In the Midnight setting orcs are corrupted dwarves. There's even a dwarf/orc hybrid race if you want to have your PC hated by just about everyone.
I kinds figured the Middle Earth corrupted elves thing was missing a bit, but you can always rationalize it by saying the origin of orcs was many thousands of years ago - I mean, how much do we know in the modern day about the individual that first invented the wheel?
Yeah, in Golarion, Orcs and Elves have nothing to do with one another. Aside from liking to kill each other.
Orcs were a subterranean race driven to the surface during the Dwarf's Quest for the Sky. Their origins are not known.
Elves come from another planet (Castrovel, not Golarion).
I believe the OP is getting his cosmology mixed up between universes, or is upset that "Orcs" are represented in many different ways in pretty much every universe.
Well, you could maybe design a "deep orc" race, analogously similar to the relation between Dwarves and Dwergar. It could be a sub-species of Orc that lived particularly deep in the ground and never, ever visits the surface.
That would be Orogs, if I'm not mistaken.
I think orogs were orcs/ogre crossbreeds.
I think orogs were orcs/ogre crossbreeds.
You're right. It was changed for the 3.5 FR, however.
Tolkien orcs get even more complicated when you realize they don't refer to a single race.
As I recall, he also called what we would recognize as goblins "orcs", and I believe it was only the Urukai that were specifically twisted from elves to be the end all, be all orc warrior.
Tolkien orcs get even more complicated when you realize they don't refer to a single race.
As I recall, he also called what we would recognize as goblins "orcs", and I believe it was only the Urukai that were specifically twisted from elves to be the end all, be all orc warrior.
Goblin, Hobgoblin, and Orc were never well-defined in the books, at least as far as I could remember. Treebeard speculated that, given their strength and stature, the Uruk-hai might be a corruption of Men, analogous to Orcs being a corruption of Elves. Another possibility he mentioned was that Saruman had managed to crossbreed Men and Orcs. As far as I can remember, it was never definitively explained. Tolkien never had the Orcs' concept nailed down firmly, IIRC the idea of a wholly, irredeemably evil race didn't sit well with him.
And yes the Lord of the ring orc where elf. Don't know why.Because Illuvatar (creator god) wouldn't have made such a thing, being a total good guy, while Morgoth, maker and master of the orcs (and BBEG), couldn't have made them from scratch because only the creator can create a true new race. Cf Aule attempting to create a Dwarven race and producing only automatons until Illuvatar had mercy and ensouled them.
Presumably also "because it's cool!" But those are the in-world reasons it had to be that way. Similarly, trolls are corrupted Ents IIRC.
EDIT: Oh, but Morgoth did create Dragons in spite of this rule. Dunno how he did that. Maybe only bipedal races really count?
He bred them from serpents and lizards. Though it does not explain how he imbued them with the sapience... Maybe the bodies acted as a shells for minor maiar, like vampires and werewolves were bat and wolf spirits clad in flesh?
And then the WarCraft universe has yet a different spin on the origins of Elves (evolved from Trolls, and then proceeded to largely hose their forebearers) and Orcs (last I checked, ancestral species not specified, but they DIDN'T come originally from Azeroth, but from another world formerly called Draenor, now called Outland after it was majorly trashed so that only little bits and pieces of it are inhabitable).
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Somebody should come up with a setting in which the various peoples' (not necessarily even of different races) origin stories flagrantly conflict with one another (and in many cases each insists that believers in all the others are going to Hell, or something).
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Somebody should come up with a setting in which the various peoples' (not necessarily even of different races) origin stories flagrantly conflict with one another (and in many cases each insists that believers in all the others are going to Hell, or something).
This is just the real world. :V
I was just confused by it all. I still like the skyrim Orcs better.
I guess half Orcs are simaler to the skyrim. But I kind of like to be full blood.
Just use the half-orc rules and say they're the only orcs for your personal games.