GM Advice Needed! Big group 7+

[Puddingsnack]

Hello, friends.

I'm currently about to run the second book of Carrion Crown ( Trial of the Beast).

Basic rundown of Trial of the Beast: the PCs will be involved in a courtroom drama where they must defend Frankenstein's monster (essentially). They are on a short time table to collect evidence from many crime scenes and prove his innocence.

I suddenly find myself running a group of 7 (maybe more) players for this. That's significantly more than the 4 players that I had before.
I cannot fault them if/when they want to split up their group to multitask.

My problem: do you have any advice for how I can keep all players entertained and engaged if they split up?

Thank you for your help! :-)

[Java Man]

In a perfect world an assistant GM or alternate game time would could accomate this, if you have the luxury to plan for and schedule it that way. In one session with one GM I would try to switch between groups often, but I have no magic solution.

[SmiloDan]

Try to minimize the number of split-up groups (no more than 2 or 3).

Try to switch pretty rapidly between groups. For example, don't run encounter 1 with group A, then encounter 2 with group B, then encounter 3 with group A, then encounter 4 with group B. Switch between groups A and B every 5 minutes or so (encounters 1 and 2 every 5 minutes or so, then encounters 3 and 4).

Also, try to avoid PCs that specialize in summoning, animating, or controlling pets. Running a big group can cause combat to grind down. If possible, try to have multiple groups fight at the same time, like 1 big battle instead of 2 smaller battles. That way, everyone is focusing on what's going on.

Also, to make fights more challenging for a big group, you might have to add more opponents to encounters, especially ones that initially have only 1 big creature. If you add minions, give them only 1 hit point; they can still be threats, but you won't have to track the hit points of tons of creatures at once.

[ShroudedInLight]

Basically, you'll have to take turns if they split up. Its kind of a pain but when you have a group that big its necessary, try to make cuts from one group to another when appropriate and don't leave one group hanging for too long.

My suggestion for 7+ people is to just double the encounter. Not even kidding, CR is not designed for a double sized party and you can't scale up encounters without breaking your party over the knee of something they cannot handle. If you are using an AP, simply double the numbers for an encounter. Double the traps...double everything. Combat will take years, but its better than the party steamrolling or getting steamrolled.

[PirateDevon]

Is part of the question here what to do with the other players while the courtroom drama unfolds?

To my mind you will have to create some extra content. Maybe there are clues or witnesses that need wrangling while the trial is happening. Maybe someone the PCs know need help with a small task that NEEDS to happen at the same time, thus forcing some small part of the group to split...there are a lot of court room/police dramas that scene switch this way to keep multiple narratives alive.

[voideternal]

Pathfinder doesn't work very well for so many players. Once you have a 7 player combat, with no split-up, even if they're fighting only one creature, each player needs to wait 6 player (+ GM)'s worth of turns before they get to engage in any activity.

If all the players operate super fast and end their turns within 30 seconds, you're still looking at a 3 minute wait before you get to do anything. And even if you get to do stuff, you need to do it fast, so you won't get to roleplay, get flashy visual descriptions, or other cool stuff. It'll purely be number crunching speed math.

On the flip side, let's say you decide to give each player a good amount of time to describe what they're doing. Now you get flashy details, but maybe each player's turn takes 2 minutes. That's 12 minutes of waiting before you get to act. 12 minutes equates to listening to 3~4 songs in a row doing nothing. The descriptions might be entertaining, but probably after 9 minutes or so of listening to other people, you'll get bored. Really bored.

The worst part is, as GM, you're likely not to notice this at all, because on every player's turn, you're actively engaged talking back, unlike the 6 other players.

Here's my advice:
1) Split the gaming group in two. Maybe on Mondays, you play with group A with 4 players, and on Wednesdays, you play with group B with 3 players.
2) Elevate one of your players to be a Sub-GM. Let the Sub-GM handle half the party. Encourage Party Split-ups often, and let the Sub-GM handle one half of the split.
3) Keep it the way it is. Your players will feel unengaged, and eventually drop out. Then, you'll be back at 4~ish players.

[Deadalready]

This game is screaming for a split...

[SmiloDan]

ALSO, if you get a Co-GM, then there are just 6 players. 3 on 1 GM is actually really great.

[SterlingEdge]

With 5+ players you dont have to split if you as the GM can put some efficiency in place. Whether the party splits into 2 rooms or stays together, go around the room, and let each person do one thing, IE I search for traps in this square. You as the GM deal with the result, and move to the next player.

Try to cut down on the off topic/task discussions, cut out some rolls and replace them with story telling. IE: if the ninja, rogue, and bard has +20 to tumble, only have the fighter and cleric roll to tumble out of the way of the rolling bolder (Dont use this option too often, as dice rolls are a part of the game, but if its 3AM and you havent got to the sessions big boss, remember it is a tool the GM can use in home play).

Use a single initiative roll for every round that battle instead of rolling every round.

If you encounter a situation where the group is unsure of the rule of a task, instead of spending 20 minutes looking up the rule, just make a decision, and run with it. Look up the rule after the game to know it for next time.

If you have people that are slow at math, use a dice roller like DiceTools that do all the math for you.

If the players are taking forever to solve a puzzle, have some players roll knowledge checks and give them hints. (If you have the time, let the discussions play on, this can be the fun RP parts of DnD)

If the rogue is 100 yards from the enemy camp, dont have him roll 8 stealth checks to get to them, just have him roll at the last 30 yards.

The key to DnD night is everyone having fun, but with big groups you may need to use some of these efficiency tactics sometimes. Not every action has to come down to a dice roll, much can just come down to good Role Play and Storytelling.

[Brother Fen]

Say "there's seven of you and one of me, so I need you to not split the party." End of discussion.

[Goth Guru]

Maybe the family of one of the victiums has an artifact that allows a person to speak with dead. A turban of seances. Let the character who can use it GM that part. They are going to be speaking for a lot of dead NPCs.