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"objectively better..." :)
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Shia is a pretty damn good actor.
Also, a cannibal.
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That's his biggest problem. He's a pretty good actor in a whole bunch of medicore to meh movies, and he's forever saddled with the Transformers franchise of poor writing. As far as the B-Tier of actors go, he's one of the standout few who could, if not given a horrible script, work his way *back* up to A status like he was coming off his child acting career.
Mutt wasn't acted badly. Mutt was a poorly crafted character in a less than stellar movie. His shoe-horned bastard storyline was basically there in the same shoe-horned fashion as Marion, and both of those things were detrimental to the film overall. But, then again, every character in this movie was badly written to the point that the Academy Award Nominated actor Harrison Ford looked like he was phoning it in.
As for this movie, I've not been a big fan of Spielberg's recent works anyway. I think Minority Report ('02) was his last directorial outing that I put on the list of movies I would pay money to own (Oh, look, I have that DVD already). War Horse and Catch Me If You Can were both decent, but nothing more than a casual TNT viewing. I just don't really think him going to the Dr Jones barrel again is going to result in anything better than the overly stylized green screen background in Crystal Skull.
CS was set in the sixties. What is next? Eighty year old Indy discovers whatever in the eighties? Indy was born in 1899...
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Cue androgenous grand-bastard of Mutt and Unknown Hippie who fronts an archaelogically themed synth band called "The Short Rounds." Indy must navigate the complicated Medicare "Donut Hole" as he wheels his oxygen tank around the many African insurgencies in search of King Soloman's Mines? The Short Rounds are doing a benefit concert in Uganda for displaced refugees and Indy's Grandchild and he meet up for old guy / young adult comedic shenanigans to a kickin' 80's soundtrack. At some point they get chased by CGI wolves, while Duran Duran moves in the background, only to escape via some fridge-like deus ex machina that results in a rainstorm to the sweet vibes of Toto.
Brilliant!
Suddenly, this thread got a lot more fun!
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CS was set in the sixties. What is next? Eighty year old Indy discovers whatever in the eighties? Indy was born in 1899...
Harrison Ford will be 77 on release date, which puts them in 1976 for the Bicentennial! How about a crossover with Nicolas Cage and the National Treasure franchise? ;D
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CS was set in the sixties. What is next? Eighty year old Indy discovers whatever in the eighties? Indy was born in 1899...Harrison Ford will be 77 on release date, which puts them in 1976 for the Bicentennial! How about a crossover with Nicolas Cage and the National Treasure franchise? ;D
If they push it ahead by a year, they can have a scene where Indy drives by a theater marquee with Star Wars on it and talk about how it'll never be popular...
Seriously, Spielberg, pass the torch already. I love the character, but I want to see his adventures in his heyday, not when he should be enjoying his retirement and cursing himself for all the aches and pains lingering in old body from all that adventuring. Chris Pratt looks pretty dapper in a fedora, just sayin'.
They need to pass the torch.
I actually liked KotCS, though the ending was VERY weak. One of the most criticized portion of the movie (nuking the fridge) was actually Spielberg's idea.
In 2011 Lucas said that Spielberg was lying and trying to protect him when Spielberg claimed it was his idea and Lucas said no one would accept it, but Spielberg doubled down about it in 2013 again restating, that it was Spielberg's idea.
I didn't have a problem with it.
It was a fun movie. As I said, the weakest part to me was the very end with the Aliens and how they showed up and disappeared. Other than that, I felt it was a stronger movie than Temple of Doom (give me shia any day over a screaming woman)
Personally, I think the hate has a lot to do with how in vogue it was to hate on Lucas. I also feel that's one reason people are praising TFA over the prequels (or at least Return of the Sith, which was more original and a stronger movie than TFA)...they simply have it in for Lucas because that's the in vogue thing to do.
That said, I'm excited about a New Indiana Jones movie, but they REALLY need to pass the torch with it.
Of course if Indy dies...that will create the Meme that Harrison Ford is dying in all his movies these days...
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Star Wars the Force Awakens was an excellent film.
The three Prequels were mediocre films with a few decent scenes mixed in.
Temple of Doom was much better than Crystal Skull
I really have zero interest in yet another Indianna Jones movie, and I have a feeling neither does the majority of the movie going public ...
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Cue androgenous grand-bastard of Mutt and Unknown Hippie who fronts an archaelogically themed synth band called "The Short Rounds." Indy must navigate the complicated Medicare "Donut Hole" as he wheels his oxygen tank around the many African insurgencies in search of King Soloman's Mines? The Short Rounds are doing a benefit concert in Uganda for displaced refugees and Indy's Grandchild and he meet up for old guy / young adult comedic shenanigans to a kickin' 80's soundtrack. At some point they get chased by CGI wolves, while Duran Duran moves in the background, only to escape via some fridge-like deus ex machina that results in a rainstorm to the sweet vibes of Toto.
I.... might watch that movie.
I'd really like to see them do what they did with Mad Max. A new Indy adventure with someone else playing Indy left without comment.
Star Wars the Force Awakens was an excellent film.
The three Prequels were mediocre films with a few decent scenes mixed in.
Temple of Doom was much better than Crystal Skull
I really have zero interest in yet another Indianna Jones movie, and I have a feeling neither does the majority of the movie going public ...
This man knows what he's talking about.
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I miss the 30's pulpiness and immersive feel of the older films. CS felt like a constant hood wink to the audience. The entire experience was like one of those craptastic MGM/Universal park rides. Speilberg has made a few of these stinkers in his career but nothing on this level. They completely missed the mark on the experience IMO. They could have taken and run with the "I like Ike" theme but ultimately they just put Soviet skins on the old nazi BBEG schtick and rolled with it....ugh. Oh and it doesnt matter who wrote the nuclear blast fridge ride scene it was fu##$g stupid, yeap thats right the gopher too. Also, vines and monkeys? WTF did you have to make me think of CS again for?
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I miss the 30's pulpiness and immersive feel of the older films. CS felt like a constant hood wink to the audience. The entire experience was like one of those craptastic MGM/Universal park rides. Speilberg has made a few of these stinkers in his career but nothing on this level. They completely missed the mark on the experience IMO. They could have taken and run with the "I like Ike" theme but ultimately they just put Soviet skins on the old nazi BBEG schtick and rolled with it....ugh. Oh and it doesnt matter who wrote the nuclear blast fridge ride scene it was fu##$g stupid, yeap thats right the gopher too. Also, vines and monkeys? WTF did you have to make me think of CS again for?
Ok, let's take an honest look at Temple of Doom. An annoying shrieking love interest who is always complaining about everything. The banquet of eyeball stew, snake stuffed with live snakes, and monkey brains from the skull for desert. What could have been an amazing look at the thugees that was instead a reskin of the nazis. Also, bugs in the trapped room? A mine cart designed like a roller coaster? Indiana being possessed by shiva and then acting like nothing happened?
It's got just ans many annoying and stupid plot choices as Crystal Skull. It's just that nostalgia for a beloved childhood movie gives it a pass.
I miss the 30's pulpiness and immersive feel of the older films. CS felt like a constant hood wink to the audience. The entire experience was like one of those craptastic MGM/Universal park rides. Speilberg has made a few of these stinkers in his career but nothing on this level. They completely missed the mark on the experience IMO. They could have taken and run with the "I like Ike" theme but ultimately they just put Soviet skins on the old nazi BBEG schtick and rolled with it....ugh. Oh and it doesnt matter who wrote the nuclear blast fridge ride scene it was fu##$g stupid, yeap thats right the gopher too. Also, vines and monkeys? WTF did you have to make me think of CS again for?Ok, let's take an honest look at Temple of Doom. An annoying shrieking love interest who is always complaining about everything. The banquet of eyeball stew, snake stuffed with live snakes, and monkey brains from the skull for desert. What could have been an amazing look at the thugees that was instead a reskin of the nazis. Also, bugs in the trapped room? A mine cart designed like a roller coaster? Indiana being possessed by shiva and then acting like nothing happened?
It's got just ans many annoying and stupid plot choices as Crystal Skull. It's just that nostalgia for a beloved childhood movie gives it a pass.
And don't forget surviving from a crashing plane on an inflatable lifeboat.
Yeah...
That's right...
They actually went there...
AND...
Surviving on a falling rope bridge and using the boards to climb up a cliff wall...
AND...ripping people's hearts out with your bare hands/fingers...
AND...flooding an ENTIRE mine with a pot (admittedly a very large pot...in fact ginormous sized pot...but still...) of water....
And the shrieking woman REALLY gets on my nerves more than any other character in the IJ series (including the TV show).
CS has him actually considering going to work in Leipzig after fighting with the russians... In sixtysomething...
I'd really like to see them do what they did with Mad Max. A new Indy adventure with someone else playing Indy left without comment.Like they've been doing with Bond for decades.
Recasting without rebooting really needs to be acceptable in these series kind of movies. (And yes I'm thinking about superhero movies too.)
That is an excellent point. I think audiences have become so used to it in Bond films, it has actually become part of the hype they use to market the movie when Bond changes. It is so mainstream it isn't even discussed.
Until someone does it, people won't see Indy as anyone but Harrison Ford.
The same thing was true of Bond with Sean Connery. Until George Lazenby took over (for 1 film), and then they brought Connery back. Then Roger Moore got his stint, and played him for 7 films!
Once people see that someone else can do the role, and someone can write, and direct, another movie, they'll cling to the one they've known and loved.
For myself, Raiders was always the best of the series, even with the story flaws. Temple of Doom was very disappointing and infantile. The Last Crusade was somewhere between the two. I was glad to see Harrison Ford back as Indy, but Kingdom of the Crystal Skull was right back to the second movie in terms of childish quality.
i enjoyed CS some so i will have to wait and see how this new movie will do
This will give us all a great discussion topic. Which was the best Indiana Jones?
"I liked Ford best."
"I liked the Sandler movies."
"...I really think the Gervais movie was the best..."
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I miss the 30's pulpiness and immersive feel of the older films. CS felt like a constant hood wink to the audience. The entire experience was like one of those craptastic MGM/Universal park rides. Speilberg has made a few of these stinkers in his career but nothing on this level. They completely missed the mark on the experience IMO. They could have taken and run with the "I like Ike" theme but ultimately they just put Soviet skins on the old nazi BBEG schtick and rolled with it....ugh. Oh and it doesnt matter who wrote the nuclear blast fridge ride scene it was fu##$g stupid, yeap thats right the gopher too. Also, vines and monkeys? WTF did you have to make me think of CS again for?Ok, let's take an honest look at Temple of Doom. An annoying shrieking love interest who is always complaining about everything. The banquet of eyeball stew, snake stuffed with live snakes, and monkey brains from the skull for desert. What could have been an amazing look at the thugees that was instead a reskin of the nazis. Also, bugs in the trapped room? A mine cart designed like a roller coaster? Indiana being possessed by shiva and then acting like nothing happened?
It's got just ans many annoying and stupid plot choices as Crystal Skull. It's just that nostalgia for a beloved childhood movie gives it a pass.
All fair points. Keep in mind though, I never said ToD was good, just that CS is a stinking POS. I do get a huge smile on my face every time someone mentions the premier being at Cannes film fest for CS :)
I thought there was talk of Chris Pine slated to possibly play the rebooted Indy?
After the last one, I really can't say I want to see anymore Indiana Jones movies.
As to Temple of Doom vs Crystal Skull... which had more truly memorable scenes? Those scenes that everybody knows. Temple has the heart grab scene, and (a personal favourite of mine) the shooting the sword guy scene. Crystal Skull has... The refrigerator.
I honestly barely remember any of the middle of Crystal Skull. Warehouse, refrigerator, Shia, ..., awful CGI monkeys, aliens. That's how forgettable the film was. Temple meanwhile, I recall in much better detail. Also, I'll take Short Round over Shia any day.
What they did was trying to make the Harrison Ford Indy a real character with feelings beyond "I hate snakes and love old stuff". He delves into loneliness. Views on school. Love. Book study. Youth. Parenthood. It doesn't really work out. The adventures of young Indiana Jones painted a very different character, which would have been more appropriate in these issues.
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I miss the 30's pulpiness and immersive feel of the older films. CS felt like a constant hood wink to the audience. The entire experience was like one of those craptastic MGM/Universal park rides. Speilberg has made a few of these stinkers in his career but nothing on this level. They completely missed the mark on the experience IMO. They could have taken and run with the "I like Ike" theme but ultimately they just put Soviet skins on the old nazi BBEG schtick and rolled with it....ugh. Oh and it doesnt matter who wrote the nuclear blast fridge ride scene it was fu##$g stupid, yeap thats right the gopher too. Also, vines and monkeys? WTF did you have to make me think of CS again for?Ok, let's take an honest look at Temple of Doom. An annoying shrieking love interest who is always complaining about everything. The banquet of eyeball stew, snake stuffed with live snakes, and monkey brains from the skull for desert. What could have been an amazing look at the thugees that was instead a reskin of the nazis. Also, bugs in the trapped room? A mine cart designed like a roller coaster? Indiana being possessed by shiva and then acting like nothing happened?
It's got just ans many annoying and stupid plot choices as Crystal Skull. It's just that nostalgia for a beloved childhood movie gives it a pass.
Well, not exactly. Indiana Jones is pulp adventure, and other than perhaps the useless shrieking love interest everything in Temple Of Doom (starting by the very title of the movie) is a good example of the genre. Yes, the heroes survive situations that really should kill them, yes, "exotic" cultures are presented in an exeggerated and slightly racist way, and some weird black magic could be involved without making too much sense.
What Temple of Doom had for it which Crystal Skull didn't is authenticity. Temple of Doom didn't wink at the audiance, it wasn't self aware, and it didn't play on nostalgia - it was simply a rollicking adventure movie, and that's how I view it. Crystal Skull just can't keep a straight face, and so the flaws are much more annoying to me. Also, Harrison Ford just doesn't give as good a performance, and Shia Lebouf is downright bad, and curiously bad CGI replaced the stunts and practical effects of the older movies.
Crystal Skull is not a terribly bad movie, but it is not a good one, and not a continuation that does justice to the originals.
Yeah. It's not like you need to setup their origins. "He's a smooth British Spy." or "He's an adventuring archaeologist that uses a whip." are pretty easy concepts for the audience to pick up.
Yup. Didn't see the first Bond film, but the first Indy film certainly didn't waste time with an origin story, and even if the third movie had a few flashbacks to set up the story and the father figure, the background of Jones is left mostly vague - and that never prevented anyone from understanding what was going on. His character just describes itself perfectly in a single scene.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
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Interestingly enough, before he made Indiana Jones, Spielberg really wanted to make a Bond movie, but Broccoli shot him down. Indy was his Bond replacement.
That's why there are occasional Bond references sprinkled through the films (Example), and maybe why Henry Jones Sr. is played by Sean Connery.
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Yes, the shooting of the swordsman was in Raiders, and it was ad-libbed. The script called for a huge knock-down drag out fight, and Harrison was recovering from food poisoning, and felt like literal crap during shooting. He needed to get back to his trailer, and the last thing he wanted to do was another take of the fight, so he pulled the revolver, fired a blank, and the stunt man reacted. It was such a good shot they used that version, and moved the big fight to the airfield.