Im not sure if this is covered anywhere but I was curious on the idea of spells having active ACs. Take Fireball for instance, you point your finger at your desired target, and "A glowing, pea-sized bead" fires off at your target. If the bead hits something before arriving at a target, it goes off early.
Lets say we have a person who sets a readied action for said Wizard. Readied action is to fire an arrow at any projectile "fired" by said Wizard. Wizard points, Fire bead streaks towards target. Can it be intercepted by an arrow, seeing the arrow can be "something the bead hits to set it off early" what AC would you have to hit for this to happen?
But the archer should probably just ready to shoot the wizard and interrupt the spell instead.
Im not sure if this is covered anywhere but I was curious on the idea of spells having active ACs. Take Fireball for instance, you point your finger at your desired target, and "A glowing, pea-sized bead" fires off at your target. If the bead hits something before arriving at a target, it goes off early.
Lets say we have a person who sets a readied action for said Wizard. Readied action is to fire an arrow at any projectile "fired" by said Wizard. Wizard points, Fire bead streaks towards target. Can it be intercepted by an arrow, seeing the arrow can be "something the bead hits to set it off early" what AC would you have to hit for this to happen?
Not possible, just as it isn't possible for someone to shoot an opponents ammunition of the air.
@OldSkool Toxophilite Rangers have a skill that allows hitting enemy ammo, "Intercept Arrow (Ex)", so the ruling that hitting enemy ammo cant be done is crazy, second it you cant hit enemy ammo you cant deflect arrows, as per deflect arrows requiring you to hit(automatically of course) said projectile out of the air.
@OldSkool Toxophilite Rangers have a skill that allows hitting enemy ammo, "Intercept Arrow (Ex)", so the ruling that hitting enemy ammo cant be done is crazy, second it you cant hit enemy ammo you cant deflect arrows, as per deflect arrows requiring you to hit(automatically of course) said projectile out of the air.
Let me clarify, it isn't possible without a special ability to allow it. The examples you gave for instance. If anyone could just target the bead of a fireball then just anyone could target an arrow in flight to deflect it. Those require feats to accomplish and those feats are specific about the attacks coming from a ranged weapon. So until there is a feat that allows you to target a spells projectile then you can't.
Fair points, what about Sunder, anyone can sunder at anytime, I can sunder an arrow laying on the ground, because its moving does that mean i cant?
Basically. Take deflect arrows or similar feats if you want to do that.
Fair points, what about Sunder, anyone can sunder at anytime, I can sunder an arrow laying on the ground, because its moving does that mean i cant?
That would be correct. There are feats that allow you to interact with projectiles in flight.
Basically. Take deflect arrows or similar feats if you want to do that.
They still won't let him hit the bead of a fireball to set it off early, presumably in the caster's face.
Basically. Take deflect arrows or similar feats if you want to do that.They still won't let him hit the bead of a fireball to set it off early, presumably in the caster's face.
My comment referred to attacking arrows, not spells.
Fireball has an attack roll if your behind something that narrows line of sight, like Arrow Slits.
I know the feat well, and looked it up to be sure, but the whole behind this arrow slit was a joke, sorry. Not sure how to show humor in text. Id throw out a gamer who said that as well. haha
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Not sure how to show humor in text.
Bah, today's kids are so spoiled by emojis they have lost its predecessor, the ancient art of the emoticon! Tilt your head to the left when looking at these. Noses are generally optional.
:-) happiness
;-) wink and a smile, this is probably what you wanted
:-( sadness
:-\ sympathetic "eh" (note: nose mandatory)
There are innumerable variations. Just never, ever, type a mirror-image emoticon (where the viewer would have to tilt their head to the right). It's just wrong. ;)
Not sure how to show humor in text.Bah, today's kids are so spoiled by emojis they have lost its predecessor, the ancient art of the emoticon! Tilt your head to the left when looking at these. Noses are generally optional.
:-) happiness
;-) wink and a smile, this is probably what you wanted
:-( sadness
:-\ sympathetic "eh" (note: nose mandatory)
There are innumerable variations. Just never, ever, type a mirror-image emoticon (where the viewer would have to tilt their head to the right). It's just wrong. ;)
LoL, LMAO, or even a JK would work too!
Whippersnappers just don't know how good they got it!.
As a GM, I would say go for it. The AC to hit would not be only AC18, that Fireball spell is able to travel 400ft. plus in a round. That is very fast and a hard target to hit. I would add +1 to the AC for very 30ft. the fireball could travel farther than an average person 30ft. Say it is a 10 level wizard shooting that fireball; so 30-(400+(40x10))=770/30=25.666 round to 26 plus the base 18 gives an AC 44 for the fireball. By the way that fireball is traveling as fast if not faster than your arrow, so the best I would give you is the fireball goes off at the half way point. To hit that on a twenty you would need a +22 to hit with that bow. Your archer is giving up a full round attack to ready an action to maybe stop that fireball if the wizard even uses fireball. As a GM, I say go for it.
@Tursic
Assuming your level 10 Wizard fires his fireball, ONE fireball in a single round, and it travels max distance, of as you mentioned 800'. Your stating this is faster then a arrow, however, given a Ranger with Archery feats, and Overwatch Style feats, he can fire 4 arrows in that same round at 110' per range increment, more if your adding flight arrows. So in the first 8, out of his possible 10 increments hes fired 4 arrows in the time it takes for a fireball to make that distance, and had them travel further.
You can look at that same Ranger taking Toxophilite archetype which has rules for interception range attacks. Mechanic wise its set to deal with Physical weapons, however it wouldnt be a stretch to use it as a guide line for attacks such as a fireball.
As Val'Bryn2 stated your Dex mod is what could be your "speed bonus to AC" not your actual speed. Otherwise Expeditious Retreat, Cheetah Sprint, etc would all grant a bonus to AC, in addition to the movement.
@OldSkool Toxophilite Rangers have a skill that allows hitting enemy ammo, "Intercept Arrow (Ex)", so the ruling that hitting enemy ammo cant be done is crazy, second it you cant hit enemy ammo you cant deflect arrows, as per deflect arrows requiring you to hit(automatically of course) said projectile out of the air.
Actually Rylden you have only quoted half of the Toxophilite archetype ability. The second to last sentence lists a number of things that you can NOT deflect/intercept.
Intercept Arrow (Ex): At 3rd level, a toxophilite can ready a ranged attack to deflect a ranged weapon attack against her or an ally within 30 feet. ... The toxophilite must declare the use of this ability after the attack is announced, but before the roll is made. This ability replaces endurance.| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Do not try to bring physics into Pathfinder. It always ends in madness. Always.
@Cerhiannon Your 100% correct in the quote of the skill, which is why later in my post I say that the rules are for intercepting range attacks, Mechanic wise its for Physical attacks, and could be used as a guide line for magical ones, not that this ability would work for this idea.
in my games, I allow any character to try this (intercept fireball pea, or an arrow)...
IF they use a hero point (karma points, favor card, ... any specific & rare consumable)
otherwise, there are indeed power / feats that allow you to do it on a regular basis.
Now that I could go with. Readying an action isn't a significant investment to do something that normally requires a feat. Spending a Hero Point is, so that I would consider allowing.
I for one would allow a player to ready a action to Shoot down something like this. I would also allow them to shoot down enemy weapons if they can destroy it with one attack. For the fireball I would make it ac 18+ caster Mod so if it was a wiz with a 18 Int it would have a ac of 22 and only 1 hp. I see this as a weaker counter spell in a way. I would have it hit at the 1/2 point of where it was fired from and where it should have gone off.
Rember that hitting it will make it go off where it was hit and could be a interesting effect on its own.
If you do that then there is no reason to ever take the deflect arrows feat, the ranger archetype or any other ability that protects from ranged weapons. If anyone can do it why waste the feat, feature or spell on it?
This also really impacts the alchemist class. After the first bomb any group of enemies is going to have at least one member ready an action to target his bombs.
Also there are no rules for where it would hit in the trajectory. You say at the 1/2 point. Players are definitely going to use that to pull shenanigans allowing them to get effects to go off where they normally wouldn't such as alchemist fire in mid-air between flying enemies.
Also the AC of the projectile is irrelevant. A wizard or a UMD character with a wand of Magic Missile can hit it every time.
Allowing this is one of the worst ideas I have ever heard in 20+ years of gaming.
I am not sure about the Ranger archtype or another that give the ability as I woould have to see it but the feat lets you do this for free where without the feat you are burning your action to do this. If you see them doing this change tatics as you see them doing it. If you are the wiz and you see the archer use his standard action to shoot it down you instead hit them with a Magic missile instead.
I do not see this blocking range attacks I see it as destorying the attack and fireball is one of the spell that would be hit with this. Lighting bolt for instance would not or Magic Missle would not be effected at all but would wast thier actions.
As to a wand of Magic Missile it would not work as "Objects are not damaged by the spell." To me the Bead would be a Object in this case.
It is worth burning the action to be able to accomplish this and getting to take another feat in that slot. So now I can still deflect arrows and take a different feat.
It is your game so if you want this house rule go for it. It is an absolutely terrible house rule but one you are free to make.
I for one would allow a player to ready a action to Shoot down something like this. I would also allow them to shoot down enemy weapons if they can destroy it with one attack. For the fireball I would make it ac 18+ caster Mod so if it was a wiz with a 18 Int it would have a ac of 22 and only 1 hp. I see this as a weaker counter spell in a way. I would have it hit at the 1/2 point of where it was fired from and where it should have gone off.
Rember that hitting it will make it go off where it was hit and could be a interesting effect on its own.
If you do that then there is no reason to ever take the deflect arrows feat, the ranger archetype or any other ability that protects from ranged weapons. If anyone can do it why waste the feat, feature or spell on it?
This also really impacts the alchemist class. After the first bomb any group of enemies is going to have at least one member ready an action to target his bombs.
Also there are no rules for where it would hit in the trajectory. You say at the 1/2 point. Players are definitely going to use that to pull shenanigans allowing them to get effects to go off where they normally wouldn't such as alchemist fire in mid-air between flying enemies.
Also the AC of the projectile is irrelevant. A wizard or a UMD character with a wand of Magic Missile can hit it every time.
Allowing this is one of the worst ideas I have ever heard in 20+ years of gaming.
The point of the feats is that you can do it for free, with this you're impacting party action economy to ready for the spell, IF they cast that spell. Readying an action to shoot the fireball doesn't do anything if they cast lightning bolt, for instance.
And as for this being the worst idea you've ever head, I've got 4 words for you: sword of true strike. We've all heard that one, and it's far worse.
You guys keep focusing on fireball which is only one spell. Because you see that as being less of an issue. That is a misdirect though because the whole argument hinges on allowing the shooting of projectiles without a feat. You can use it on enemy arrows and alchemist bombs. An alchemist doesn't have a choice between fireballs and lightning bolts. You just have to ready an action to shoot whatever he throws.
Also this is allowing you intercept missiles that aren't even targeting you. Something even the feats can't do. So one party member can use their action to shut down an enemy ranged attacker or alchemist regardless of who that enemy is targeting.
But it is a house rule anyway and this is a rules discussion forum so I'm done with the discussion anyway. As long as it ends up fun at your table go for it. I would not enjoy that game but that's me.