| CSPTT |
Hello everyone!
We are starting a new campaign in pathfinder.
The roles are as follow:
Fetchling Paladin
Fetchling Swashbuckler
Human Unchained Rouge
Fetchling Sorcerer Crossblooded or plain
I have some difficulties choosing bloodline.
I know that I don't want to be a summoner or a close range fighter so that limits the bloodlines a bit.
We have two close range fighters and a long range rouge so I'm thinking I should be something in control of the battlefield, something that makes it easier for the fighters to keep alive and also the rouge if something would come up and they need help.
Don't know if the crossblood would be more powerful for this or a plain sorcerer, however I have chosen this class so want to make the best of it.
From what I have read, it seems Arcane is the most versatile of the bloodlines so it's a given to have it first then I saw Shadow which helps create the illusion for mimicking other spells.
Don't know if this is a good combo or not or if there is a more powerful combo for a controller of the battlefield.
I'm grateful for all the responses and thank you for reading this through and for your patience.
| The Mortonator |
In general consensus would be that crossblooded is the right choice for most optimized sorcerers. But then again most optimized sorcerers know what they want to be doing with their spells known.
The best guide to bloodlines, in my opinion, would be here. It outlines a lot of your powerful options and gives you the roles of each.
I'll alert you now that there are two detractors to the awesomeness of the Arcane Bloodline. The first is that Crossblooded can very effectively weave between bloodlines making for a mix and match bloodline that can equal Arcane. The second is that since Familiar Folio most bloodlines can grant a familiar.
You can of course, go for broke and nab both a bonded item and a familiar through crossblooded with Arcane. More spells is always nice.
The Shadow Bloodline alone though is pretty amazing. In my eyes this is one of the most fun bloodlines. As a Fetchling you can trade out Skilled for Shadow Magic which definitely encourages a Shadow Bloodline. There are even three ways to ditch the lackluster ability, Shadowstrike. Thanks to Familiar Folio you can trade out it out for a familiar with a cool version of Cause Fear. There is also a Shadow Bloodline exclusive archetype that can't combo with Crossblooded within Blood of Shadows. Finally, there is the Umbral Wildblooded which can be more useful and again doesn't combo with Crossblooded.
I like Arcane Bloodline more for Eldritch Heritage. Umbral Wildblood has a nice Arcana, but I'm happy with a familiar that has a small bonus especially if you can get it with the School Familiar (Illusion) archetype. What it comes down to is either the archetype from Blood of Shadows or Crossblooded and being mostly a pure Shadow with cherry picked abilities from another.
Personal opinion... Crossblooded. Especially for Psychic, Fey, Serpentine, or Rakshasa. You can't go wrong with that answer.
| CSPTT |
Thank you for the replay.
Shadow Magic was what I was thinking when boosting the Shadow bloodline.
I was leaning for crossblood from the start so my instincts was right, thank you for confirming.
However I don't really get the formula of Psychic, Fey, Serpentine, or Rakshasa.
I read on them a bit and Psychic has a good level 1 spell that trumps Shadowstrike but the rest I can't see it.
Is it for the bonus they are better or something else?
If you can explain a bit it would be grateful.
| andreww |
In general consensus would be that crossblooded is the right choice for most optimized sorcerers. But then again most optimized sorcerers know what they want to be doing with their spells known.
This is categorically untrue. Crossblooded is an absolute trap for the majority of sorcerers. It is mostly used by other classes who want to deal direct damage and grab +2 damage/dice with a single level dip for orc/draconic.
For a straight sorcerer it is largely terrible as you wait another level before getting your new level of spells. You are already waiting a level behind other casters. With crossblooded you cast nothing but level 1 spells until level 5. You have level 2 spell slots but no level two spells known. While you can use those slots for lower level spells or for metamagicked spells getting an extra arcana is not worth the sacrifice you make.
Sorcerers live and die based on the number, range and versatility of their spell selection. This is also why the Human FCB (also available to half elves and half orcs) is so incredibly valuable.
| andreww |
As far as bloodlines go the standout ones are probably:
Arcana - just generally great, everything it gives you is useful., its bloodline spells are helpful and extra spells known is always a bonus.
Sage - Like Arcane but now you cast from Int, much stronger than Charisma. You will have masses of skill points and a single trait (Clever Wordplay/Student of Philosophy/Pragmatic Activator) can ensure that you remain strong at your preferred charisma based skills.
Fey - anything which increases spell DC is very strong. There are a lot of powerful compulsion spells out there. The bloodline spells are a bit weak but the abilities are decent. Works ridiculously well with the Kitsune favoured class bonus.
Psychic - a relatively recent addition, unusual in that it turns your spell casting into Psychic rather than Arcane. What this means is still a little up in the air but it looks like Arcane Spell Failure is no longer an issue. That means you can deck yourself in as much armour as you want and cast away. You will take hideous penalties to str and dex skills and ability checks (including initiative) as you will lack proficiency but most of those are easily overcome. You will want Noble Scion of War to avoid the horrible penalties to Initiative. You should pick up Logical Spell to avoid Fear effects shutting down many of your spells and the concentration penalty on thought component spells may create issues if you want to use metamagic.
| The Mortonator |
However I don't really get the formula of Psychic, Fey, Serpentine, or Rakshasa.
I read on them a bit and Psychic has a good level 1 spell that trumps Shadowstrike but the rest I can't see it.
Is it for the bonus they are better or something else?
If you can explain a bit it would be grateful.
No problem!
What it comes down to for most is Arcana. You don't really need a better 1st level ability since the familiar you can get in place of Shadowstrike is aces. Actually, as a Fetchling you might consider trading out, Nighteye, instead either for a nice 3rd or 1st level ability.
The Psychic Bloodline changes your casting to being psychic in nature, which is a matter of preference most people are still making stary eyes at. You should look it up to see if it suits you. Otherwise you can get Undercasting Prodigy over Shadow Well which goes a very long way to solving the problem andreww mentioned. You can have around two to three spells known every level past 10th this way. (Beating out the non-crossblooded Shadow bloodline. :p ) The Thoughsense is also pretty nice, but you have to pick between that and either Shadow Well.
Fey is, again, mostly for the Arcana. It's a great boost to DCs and comes with a really nice and complementary list of spells. It's a highly specialized choice.
Serpentine, again, that arcana. The familiar is funny enough trash because you have better familiar access. Some cool spells.
Rakshasa is the only one the arcana sucks for. What doesn't suck are the abilities and spells. Seriously, this is a fantatic list of options such as Mind Reader than can make for a very strong character.
This is categorically untrue. Crossblooded is an absolute trap for the majority of sorcerers. It is mostly used by other classes who want to deal direct damage and grab +2 damage/dice with a single level dip for orc/draconic.
I was trying to say if you are going for high optimization, regardless of if that is blasting or enchantment or whatever, it is ideal. In other words, specialised builds. You only end up marginally behind a few times in your career for being ahead the rest of the time. I make this statement partly off the back of the guides for sorcerers I have read.
There's actually some trickery to get around this problem. My favorite being Veiled Sorcerer. It's fun for Words of Power too. Another is Undercasting Prodigy. True, you are at level 10 before it is no long a problem, but for the first few levels you feel the sting less only to be hurt at 4th, 6th, and 8th. Will I take 3 bad levels (one if you play Veiled Sorcerer and none for WoP) in trade for a stronger character the rest of the time? Yea, pretty much.
But again, you should have a very firm idea of what you are doing to attempt it.
Sorcerers live and die based on the number, range and versatility of their spell selection. This is also why the Human FCB (also available to half elves and half orcs) is so incredibly valuable.
Fetching can too as of Blood of Shadows. Look at any genie kin for reference to how.
Though, to be honest if number, range, and versatility are all that matter to you play a Wizard.
| Paladin of Baha-who? |
Crossblooded is a really bad choice, especially if you're the team's only arcane caster. Losing 1 spell per level from your spells known is a huge hit. Imagine being level 5 before you get your first 2nd level spell, or level 7 for your 3rd level spell.
Crossblooded is really only good for dipping. Using a race that gets to use a favored class bonus to get additional spells known doesn't make up for getting them late, but at least you have more than you would otherwise.
| CSPTT |
Thank you for your replies Andreww and for the concerns about crossblod. Big thanks for the explanation of the bloodlines.
Thank you for your reply Paladin Of Baha-who? and thank you for being concerned for my party´s welfare.
Thank you The Mortonator for replying to my answer and taking your time again to writing a second time to explain the bloodlines.
Here's my thought of the sorcerer so far:
Taking Shadow Magic Traits
bloodlines Shadow/Arcana
Will strive to be more Shadow than Arcana.
Shadow: Shadowstrike (1) = Switch, Nighteye (3) = Switch, Shadow Well (9), Enveloping Darkness (15), Shadow Master (20)
Arcana: Arcane Bond (1), Metamagic Adept (3), New Arcana (9), School Power (15), Arcane Apotheosis (20)
My GM told me about:
Possessed: You were, or are, possessed in some way by another entity that grants you occasional access to its knowledge. Once per day, you can attempt a Knowledge check of your choice even if you are not trained in that skill and it is not usually possible to use that skill untrained. If you can normally use that skill untrained, you gain a +2 trait bonus on the check.
If I take Arcana does this go well together or not and is it good for the sorcerer, more knowledge, more power right?
| avr |
I think you're thinking that you get all of the bloodline powers as a crossblooded sorc. You don't. You get both of the arcana, then you get to pick and choose between the bloodline's powers, feats and bonus spells each level you gain one. So you might choose Arcane Bond, Metamagic Adept, Shadow Well, Enveloping Darkness and Arcane Apotheosis as bloodline powers, say, but if you did you wouldn't also get abilities from swapping out bloodline powers or get the bloodline powers I didn't name there.
If you're not going with the sage bloodline (& you can't if crossblooded) you aren't going to have the intelligence to make that possessed trait work well.
| CSPTT |
Thank you Avr for your replay.
Yes, I know I can only choose 1 spell for each time I lvl up to 3 then 6 et c
So it's going to put a strain in my party.
The possessed is something I will try to make it work in the build, pretty lucky with the dice for a old gambler :)
However I'm trying to work out the build, spells to chooses from, and the both bloodlines, feats are something I'm still looking in to.
The battle of things would be something with a crossbow or range to avoid near combat.
Can't blame th GM to try killing me but I will go down fighting.
in the end I want to try something new and something I find interesting, but of course I'm talking with my GM about this and the party and of course here in the forum.