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You've just had mental block cast on you and failed your saving throw.
You clearly cannot use any spells by virtue of spells known/spells prepared.
How does this affect your ability to use scrolls or wands (without UMD)? The rules (and lots of recent FAQs) have drawn a clear line between "spells known" and "spells on [your] class list". Mental block doesn't seem to strip the passive "spells on [your] class list", indicating you could still use wands and scrolls like you did previously.
Thoughts? Are wands/scrolls off limit as well?
The target loses all skill ranks, spells known, spells prepared, and activated feats, as well as its extraordinary, supernatural, and spell-like abilities. Each round at the end of the target's turn, the target can attempt another Will save to end this effect.
To have any chance of activating a scroll spell, the scroll user must meet the following requirements.
> The spell must be of the correct type (arcane or divine). Arcane spellcasters (wizards, sorcerers, and bards) can only use scrolls containing arcane spells, and divine spellcasters (clerics, druids, paladins, and rangers) can only use scrolls containing divine spells. (The type of scroll a character creates is also determined by his class.)
> The user must have the spell on her class list.
> The user must have the requisite ability score.
I read the intent as disallowing activation, but the wording appears to allow use of magic items, including scrolls and wands if the character has the spell on their spell list.
Yeah, I'm not seeing anything to disallow it.
Obviously if you needed UMD to activate the item you're out of luck but otherwise go for it.
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Interesting follow-up question on UMD there, too.
In the case you had to use UMD (it wasn't on your class list), does losing all your skill ranks in UMD now mean it's untrained, and you cannot even use it to cast a spell using your raw Charisma bonus?
This spell could've used some extra wording to make these situations (which should be fairly common in a playtest) crystal clear. Sentences like:
"If a creature loses all it's skill ranks in a skill, and that skill can only be used when trained, that creature can no longer use that skill."
or
"If a creature loses all it's skill ranks in a skill, it is still considered trained in that skill if it at least had 1 skill rank invested prior to the mental block."
(depending on how it should work)
An extra sentence clarifying magic item usage where the spell remains on the class list would've been right dandy too.
I think it's worth lobbying for FAQ votes here now as mesmerists start to see more play and have access to this spell at 1st level!
I think the intention of this spell would prevent you from using wands or scrolls or from trying to blindly use UMD to activate an item.
It's not what it technically says, but that seems more like an oversight than an intention.
If a skill is Trained Only then you must have ranks in it to use it.
Since the wording of the spell is specifically that you lose skill ranks I would say you can't use UMD while under Mental Block.
Re Claxon: I agree, there's probably a RAW/RAI disconnect here. However the spell already seems to be relatively powerful for a 1st/2nd level spell, so I'm inclined to leave the loophole open.
Claxon has the right of it.
The intent behind being able to automatically use Wands and Scrolls with spells on your spell list implies that you have the basic knowledge and understanding behind the spells you train with. i.e. If someone makes a Wand of Magic Missiles, your understanding in the Arcane Arts as a Wizard or Sorcerer makes you able to activate such an item without issue.
Also note, that since Mental Block prevents you from using Skills, Feats, Extraordinary, Supernatural, and Spell-like Abilities, as well as lose access to Spells Known and Prepared (i.e. every spell that you can cast), it only makes sense that Mental Block would prevent you from using something that you otherwise couldn't do (which is cast Arcane/Divine Spells), as every spell that you would ever come across, you wouldn't know, or be able to prepare (and therefore cast).
In other words, it's almost as if you lack the components of the Spells class feature to actually make use of the Spells class feature. And if you have no effective Spells class feature, then you can't use something that relies on your effective Spells class feature (which is non-existent, thanks to Mental Block), such as Wands or Scrolls.
I will note that a third level Paladin does not have the Spellcasting class feature (and thus cannot prepare any spells), but is still able to use scrolls and wands of spells on the Paladin list without a UMD check.
If the intent was to prevent scroll and wand usage, I think that would need to be specifically called out.
I will note that a third level Paladin does not have the Spellcasting class feature (and thus cannot prepare any spells), but is still able to use scrolls and wands of spells on the Paladin list without a UMD check.
If the intent was to prevent scroll and wand usage, I think that would need to be specifically called out.
I disagree, it should technically be called out, but whoever wrote the spell likely forgot about the unique way in which scrolls and wands are activated, and so did not write a proviso to specifically cover that because they likely assumed what they had written was sufficient to disallow that too.
All in all, it's likely that that you shouldn't be allowed to use them but technically can with the way it's written. We should probably FAQ this question and ask for clarification.
As for the comment that the spell is awfully powerful...
Feeblemind is a 5th level spell which permanently sets you intelligence and charisma to 3.
Mental block has a similar effect but only lasts for rounds per level, and offers save each round.
Compare this to hold person 2nd/3rd level spell which completely blocks taking action but does allow a save each round.
It's a good spell, but not blatantly more powerful than similar options.
I will note that a third level Paladin does not have the Spellcasting class feature (and thus cannot prepare any spells), but is still able to use scrolls and wands of spells on the Paladin list without a UMD check.
If the intent was to prevent scroll and wand usage, I think that would need to be specifically called out.
The paladin in your example could use wands but not scrolls, actually, based on how spell trigger and spell completion work. In that regard, I can see the argument being made for wands being usable under a mental block, but scrolls I think are more clearly not (since you have to complete the spell and need a caster level check or ability to cast spells).
As for the comment that the spell is awfully powerful...
Feeblemind is a 5th level spell which permanently sets you intelligence and charisma to 3.
Mental block has a similar effect but only lasts for rounds per level, and offers save each round.
Compare this to hold person 2nd/3rd level spell which completely blocks taking action but does allow a save each round.
It's a good spell, but not blatantly more powerful than similar options.
Also compare to hideous laughter (which is level 1 for bards and completely locks that target out of acting while sending it prone for -4 effective AC)
Good points Mark
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All of them (or none, since I assume it's the spell that gets clarified) once Seifter issues the errata? :)
... but until then, as written, since you seem to still have access to "spells on your class list", it'd seem you could read a scroll for a spell on your class list, since that wasn't taken away.
I imagine this is coming up in PFS play with bad guys who are locked down by a PC mesmerist who have wands or scrolls they can fall back on (I know it just did for me!)