This or That Feat

[DexterLecter]

I'm making a monk and trying to decide between two starting feats.

Bleeding Attack
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/belier-s-bite-combat

Or

Snapping Turtle Style
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/snapping-turtle-style-combat-sty le

My wisdom modifier is going to be 4, plus the fact I'm going to be a Oread with 1 natural armor makes me feel like my AC should be good enough to deal without the 1 Shield Bonus. Plus 1d4 extra dmg every hit seems great. But I'm just wondering from people who have experience with Monks.

Also taking the Heavy Hitter trait
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/regional-traits/quain-martial-artist-quain

But I'm open to other ideas for ones I might have missed. Taking the adopted trait and using Humans would allow me to take both feats, but again 1 extra dmg forever seems good.

Thanks.

[GM Rednal]

I'd probably go for the Style Feat, myself. The bleed damage isn't so bad at low levels, but generally, bleed damage doesn't stack very easily... so it won't be very useful later on, whereas better AC will always be useful.

(That is, them taking Bleed Damage isn't actually 1d4 per-hit. Bleed damage happens at the beginning of their turn, and bleed of the same type - HP damage - doesn't stack with itself.)

[Leandro Garvel]

The shield bonus from Snapping Turtle Style stacks with most other common AC boosts (aside from UMD Wands of Shield) and Monks need AC boosts even more so than most other martial classes.

The bleed damage from Belier's Bite doesn't stack with itself, many monsters are immune to bleed damage, and there are better ways to gain static damage boosts - which I agree with you on, they are very valuable for Monks - like Power Attack.

So, of those two feats, I would choose Snapping Turtle Style.

[GM 1990]

I could be misinterpreting it but it appears the bleed damage will be at beginning of the other creatures turn, and wouldn't be "per hit", you could roll 1d4 each hit and the highest would be what they take at start of their turn. avg would be 2.5 per round at start of their turn.
Pro: if your initial flurry didn't kill a CR 1/8 to CR1 monster, that additional 2-3 at the start of its turn would probably finish it off. Con: how many times will your initial flurry when combined with your other party members possible hits not kill it before it even gets added?

You didn't say what your dex is, but +1 natural and +4 wisdom is still only 15. That's respectable at 1st level, but monster bonus's run between +1 and +6 to hit in those CR ranges. So depending what you're fighting you're sitting at a 50% to 25% miss chance per strike, the additional +1 AC moves it 5%. The nice thing about an additional AC - you will benefit from it vs every attack made on you, including AoO's.

I always like defense first though, you have to be up to roll d20's for attacks on your turn.

Edit: Ninja'd - what they said, but with more math :-)

[Imbicatus]

Are you making a CRB monk or an Unchained Monk? If unchained I'd say neither and take Weapon Focus. If CRB you don't qualify for it at first level because of BAB.

While Belier's Bite is incredibly powerful at first level, it does fall back in usefulness as you level up. However the ability to easily inflict bleed damage has some great synergy (especially if you are a Kuthite), and at low level 1d4 bleed damage is a death sentence to just about everything you'll face except undead.

I'd take it over snapping turtle.

[GM 1990]

Combining the CRB vs Unchained monk note from Imbicatus and Leandro's note about Power Attack -
Since Unchained is a full BAB, Power Attack becomes pretty viable and scales (and applies on every hit).

If you've even got a +1 dex bonus that'd push your AC to 16 and maybe that's good enough if you're not the "main" front liner. The only issue is that until you can afford magic defense upgrades and/or get your ki-pool your AC (unless someone buffs you) is stuck at that for a couple levels.

Since Unchained gets a bonus feat at 2d, you could take Snapping or Power Attack at 1st and the other at 2d and not really go wrong.

[DexterLecter]

I'm reading about the unchained monk now, it just seems better in almost every way. Are their any benefits to playing the CRB?

[GM Rednal]

All good saves and access to certain archetypes?

In general, though, the Unchained Monk is probably better overall. Not in every single way, but in enough ways to matter for most players.

[DexterLecter]

GM 1990 wrote:

Since Unchained gets a bonus feat at 2d, you could take Snapping or Power Attack at 1st and the other at 2d and not really go wrong.

You can't pick those feats as the bonus ones, you can only take the ones from the list they give you.

[GM 1990]

DexterLecter wrote:

I'm reading about the unchained monk now, it just seems better in almost every way. Are their any benefits to playing the CRB?

Similar to the rogue, there is little reason not to use the UC version unless your GM doesn't let you.

The big deal is full BAB and d10 hitpoints. Monks are going to be up in the mix, don't get spells for self-buffing, and even with ki-pool weren't on par with fighters/barbarians as front liners, especially with the armor limitations.

[Leandro Garvel]

Imbicatus wrote:

Are you making a CRB monk or an Unchained Monk? If unchained I'd say neither and take Weapon Focus. If CRB you don't qualify for it at first level because of BAB.

While Belier's Bite is incredibly powerful at first level, it does fall back in usefulness as you level up. However the ability to easily inflict bleed damage has some great synergy (especially if you are a Kuthite), and at low level 1d4 bleed damage is a death sentence to just about everything you'll face except undead.

I'd take it over snapping turtle.

I would definitely take the Belier's Bite feat first if I had the Cruelty trait - that's excellent synergy, especially with the Core Monk!

[DexterLecter]

Leandro Garvel wrote:

Imbicatus wrote:

Are you making a CRB monk or an Unchained Monk? If unchained I'd say neither and take Weapon Focus. If CRB you don't qualify for it at first level because of BAB.

While Belier's Bite is incredibly powerful at first level, it does fall back in usefulness as you level up. However the ability to easily inflict bleed damage has some great synergy (especially if you are a Kuthite), and at low level 1d4 bleed damage is a death sentence to just about everything you'll face except undead.

I'd take it over snapping turtle.

I would definitely take the Belier's Bite feat first if I had the Cruelty trait - that's excellent synergy, especially with the Core Monk!

Any downside to worshiping a evil deity though? haha

[GM 1990]

DexterLecter wrote:

GM 1990 wrote:

Since Unchained gets a bonus feat at 2d, you could take Snapping or Power Attack at 1st and the other at 2d and not really go wrong.

You can't pick those feats as the bonus ones, you can only take the ones from the list they give you.

roger - I forgot that (again). For some reason in my mind "bonus feat" just clicks to "from the list", and my brain keeps rejecting the programing.

[DexterLecter]

It's okay. I think doing the Belier's Bite with Cruelty is the best option. Then doing snapping turtle or weapon focus later depending on what I'm struggling with.

[blashimov]

Also you misunderstood how traits work, common mistake. You don't get a race feature, you have to specifically go to traits and pick one from the race category. You can't just get adopted and pick any bonus feat.

Consider the chain of feats too: so you want to build into snapping turtle?