Arcane Sniper (Build Advice)

[Emn1ty]

So I was thinking it'd be cool to combine a roguelike bow sniper with arcane archer and was curious about how people would accomplish this.

I know the traditional Arcane Archer selections would like be Ranger or possibly even Magus.

But so far my ideas are as follows:

Rogue 9 / Sorcerer 1 (Sage Bloodline) / Arcane Archer 10
Good amount of sneak attack, great skill ranks and decent versatility. Problem is you can't take Arcane Archer till level 10 with the slow BAB progression.

Slayer 6 / Sorcerer 1 / Arcane Archer 10 / (sorc/slayer continue)
Similar skills, much earlier entry and the Sniper archetype makes sneak attacking at range very doable. That and getting 2d6 Sneak + 8 merely from doing a sneak attack on a studied target. Unfortunately you do lose out on sneak attack dice, however.

Anyone have more input on this concept? I know it's not optimal and likely never will be, but I do think it'd be fun to have a sniper-like arcane trickster which is a little more focused on magical arrows than just magic in general.

[Algodor]

Are you tied to sneak attack? Nothing in the rules say that you can't play a ranger or a bow magus like a thief! Just have a bit more INT so you can snag those extra skill points, maybe be human too.

[Emn1ty]

I'm not completely married to sneak attack, no. But I do like the idea of mechanics sort of fleshing out the flavor of the character. They will be hiding and taking pot shots from cover (getting to hit people without a dex bonus is helpful at the very least) so why not get some benefit out of it?

Other things that are helpful is the Slayer talents, things like grabbing the Rogue Trick Snap Shot, or the Slayer Talent for Ranger Combat Style are nice additions.

I'm just curious how others may make this class, though. Sneak attack is a nice way to bump the damage for bows outside of plain enchantments and things like Vital Strike. But if you think about it, at level 8 in a surprise round you could get with a casting of gravity bow:

2d6 + 2d6 (Vital Strike) + 2d6 (sneak) + 2 (studied target) + 6 (sniper) + 1 (arcane archer enhancement) + 4 (Deadly Aim). Basically 6d6+13 damage on a single arrow, perhaps even +15 with an okay strength score and a composite bow.

I could take a look at what a bow magus could do, though. Not opposed to that, just would like to make use of the Arcane Archer if I can.

[RainyDayNinja]

You know what will get you even earlier entry? Bloodrager!

Take the Primalist archetype to pick up rage powers like Reckless Abandon and Surprise Accuracy, and the Urban Bloodrager archetype to get a Dex-based rage (or stick with Strength on an adaptive bow when you need the damage more).

You'd have great accuracy, and better spell progression than with a 1-level dip of Sorcerer.

[Emn1ty]

Bloodrager is definitely an interesting way to play it.

Although another way I just thought of is Slayer 1 / Sorcerer 5 / Eldritch Knight 3 / Arcane Archer 3 / Eldritch Knight 7.

And lastly, falling back into Rogue/Slayer take two talents in Major and Minor Magic (or even do so in Slayer through the Rogue Talent tree) and then Arcane Archer with the SLA.

2nd - (whatever)
4th - Rogue Trick (Minor Magic)
6th - Rogue Trick (Major Magic)
Arcane Archer 3
Slayer (cont)

Get the elemental enhancement, stick the 1st level spell on my arrows (Darkness would be an okay pick, or maybe Burning Hands or something... could also just pick up Gravity Bow and ignore the Imbue ability) and only lose 3 levels of Slayer. Seems like a big cost for a simple elemental damage to my arrows but at least then I'm free to use other enchantments and I can pick the damage type at the start of the day.

[Java Man]

Emn1ty wrote:

Bloodrager is definitely an interesting way to play it.

Although another way I just thought of is Slayer 1 / Sorcerer 5 / Eldritch Knight 3 / Arcane Archer 3 / Eldritch Knight 7.

And lastly, falling back into Rogue/Slayer take two talents in Major and Minor Magic (or even do so in Slayer through the Rogue Talent tree) and then Arcane Archer with the SLA.

2nd - (whatever)
4th - Rogue Trick (Minor Magic)
6th - Rogue Trick (Major Magic)
Arcane Archer 3
Slayer (cont)

Get the elemental enhancement, stick the 1st level spell on my arrows (Darkness would be an okay pick, or maybe Burning Hands or something... could also just pick up Gravity Bow and ignore the Imbue ability) and only lose 3 levels of Slayer. Seems like a big cost for a simple elemental damage to my arrows but at least then I'm free to use other enchantments and I can pick the damage type at the start of the day.

Sadly for this idea ther was an FAQ a while back saying that SLAs don't count for PrC prereqs. Many chadacter builds died that day.

[Emn1ty]

That is unfortunate. Suppose that's an "ask the GM" scenario then.

[the Diviner]

Another option would be:

Magus(Eldritch archer) 4/ Rogue 1/ Arcane trickster 10

You take the feat Accomplished sneak attacker at level 5 and 7 and you now have full sneak attack. Combined with various spells you can use as well it should be able to do a lot of damage with just one arrow.

[pulseoptional]

the Diviner wrote:

Another option would be:

Magus(Eldritch archer) 4/ Rogue 1/ Arcane trickster 10

You take the feat Accomplished sneak attacker at level 5 and 7 and you now have full sneak attack. Combined with various spells you can use as well it should be able to do a lot of damage with just one arrow.

i didnt realize you could take that feat multiple times. it didnt have it listed as such on the SRD, unless im mistaken.

[Scott Wilhelm]

So, I was thinking my way of doing Arcane Archer would be something like this.

1Fighter 1: Martial weapons, 1 or 2 Feats BAB+1
2F1Wizard1: Lvl 1 Spells
3F1W2: Feat, BAB +2
4F1W3: lvl 2 Spells, Ability +1
5F1W4: BAB +3, Feat
6F1W5: Lvl 3 Spells
7F1W5Eldritch Knight1: 2 Feats, BAB +4
8F1W5E2: CL6, BAB+5, Ability +1
9F1W5E3: CL7, Lvl 4 Spells, BAB+6
10F1W5E3Arcane Archer1: Enhance Arrows
11F1W5E3A2: CL8, Imbue Arrows, Feat
12F1W5E3A3: Elemental Arrows, CL9, Lvl 5 Spells

This path is a little more Arcane and a little less Archer, basically, for the first several levels, you are just a Wizard with a couple of extra hp and slightly diminished spellcasting, losing a CL at 1, 7, and 10. You won't be a burden on the party. The fastest path I can think of toward Arcane Archer is 6 levels in Ranger, then at level 7, you can take your first level in Arcane Archer. Ranger Spells aren't as good as Wizard Spells, though. I favor Wizard over Sorcerer because Sorcerers gain a lot of their awesomeness on Class Abilities, and you stop developing these when you Multiclass. Also, I like the flexibility at being able to learn all the spells you want, even at the expense of some number of spells cast/day. And I feel this is more than offset by gaining earlier access to higher level spells, which also offsets the fact that your CL is lagging behind other casters' in order to be a better archer.

I would consider a completely different approach from Arcane Archer if I were thinking of being a Sniper. This is something I've been toying with. It starts something like this.

1Brawler1: Snakebite Striker, Sneak Attack 1d6, Feat
2B1Ninja1: Sneak Attack 1d6, Poison
3B1N2: Ninja Vanisthing Trick, Ki Pool, Feat
4B1N2[something arcane]1:

Ninja Vanishing Trick lets you turn Invisible for 1 Round as a Swift Action. A level in Wizard, Sorcerer, or Acanist will let you use a Wand of Scorching Ray, a Ranged Touch Attack with no Saving Throw that does 4d6. If you use it while Vanished, it's a Ranged Touch Attack vs Flatfooted AC with no Saving Throw that does 6d6 Damage when you figure in your Sneak Attack Damage: no Dex Mod => Hello, Sneak Attack. Before you acquire that Wand, there are the Cantrips Finger of Frost, Jolt, and Acid Splash

I was thinking like Tengu with Claws. I was thinking Dirty Tricks to also lock in the Sneak Attack Damage by making opponents Blind, and the Arcane Class I was thinking was Arcanist with Dimensional Hop, a tactical teleport that doesn't impose any disorientation an so also aids in Flanking and gives another avenue for locking in the Sneak Attack. Another way to go might be one those elemental Races like Oread and then take that elemental affinity feat so that you can do make your Scorching Ray do either Fire or Acid damage.

From there, you might go in any of a lot of directions: more Arcane levels are always awesome, and you can build toward Arcane Trickster. 3 levels in Monk, Drunken Master: Monk and Ninja levels stack for increased Ki. Drunken Ki is a great way to increase Ki. There are 4 Feats that will help, Increased Ki, Fast Drinker, Deep Drinker, and Potion Glutton. A 4th level in Monk, and you can use your Ki to cast Scorching Ray. Or you can just keep taking levels in Ninja and doing more and more Sneak Attack Damage with your Ranged Touch Attacks.

Still another option you should consider is Alchemist. Use Explosive Missile to shoot exploding arrows. Grenadier will make you proficient in Long Bow, and they have that ability to attach alchemal weapons to their arrows. Take Burn! Burn! Burn! and do even more damage. Deadly Aim doesn't work on Bombs or Alchemist Fire, but it will work on the Arrows you put them on...

[Dragonchess Player]

More arcane than sniper: Brawler (snakebite striker) 1/rogue (or vivisectionist alchemist) 1/wizard (Evocation/Admixture school) 4/arcane trickster 6/arcane archer 2/arcane trickster +4/arcane archer +2 to gain 9th-level spells at 20th level, as well as the ability to stack Sneak Attack on the arrow and an area spell with Imbue Arrow and Surprise Spell. As an Int-based caster, using wizard will also give the character many more skill ranks. Use heroism (and Quickened true strike) to improve your attack bonus (BAB +12 at 20th) to adequate, instead of poor; also purchase or craft bracers of archery or bracers of falcon's aim (and sniper goggles) ASAP.

The character is mainly a ranged touch blaster (take the Magical Knack (Wizard) trait to deal with the CL hit) with archery (short composite bow, unless gaining longbow proficiency through race or feat) as a backup/distance option (ranged sneak attacks being limited to 30 ft in most circumstances); at least until sniper goggles are affordable and Imbue Arrow is gained. Use of vanish, invisibility, and a high initiative (to attack flat-footed opponents at the start of combat; Improved Initiative is a must-have) are important for the character to focus on. Reach Spell and Intensified Spell are very useful (an Intensified Reach shocking grasp as a 3rd-level spell can benefit from Sneak Attack, while fireball or lightning bolt normally can't; a Reach force punch can also come in handy).

[Gisher]

Eldritch Scoundrel 8/Arcane Archer 10. You could easily replace a few levels with levels of Arcane Trickster if you wanted. If you use Unchained Rogue as the base for Elritch Scoundrel, you could have a decent Dex-based switch-hitter.

[the Diviner]

pulseoptional wrote:

the Diviner wrote:

Another option would be:

Magus(Eldritch archer) 4/ Rogue 1/ Arcane trickster 10

You take the feat Accomplished sneak attacker at level 5 and 7 and you now have full sneak attack. Combined with various spells you can use as well it should be able to do a lot of damage with just one arrow.

i didnt realize you could take that feat multiple times. it didnt have it listed as such on the SRD, unless im mistaken.

You are indeed correct. Looks like I missed that.

Though that just means you have more feats for archery specific things if they survive the first shot.

[Emn1ty]

Woah looks like this thread got some more going on since I last checked, haha.

I was completely unaware of the Accomplished Sneak Attacker feat, that's a great way to supplement the sneak attack damage.

The concept for using the Brawler is an interesting idea as well. Combined with the feat above I'd be at least at 3d6 sneak attack damage. The arguments are also convincing for Wizard over Sorcerer, but the primary reason I want to pick Sorcerer is it's just simpler for me to manage spells. I know that I'd be behind even more as one, but I would like to try and go down that route.

Still... wizard (admixture for flexible spell damage), 6d6 sneak and some fun features from both Trickster and Archer would probably be the best bet.

[Emn1ty]

Alright, I found one more idea for this. The Eldritch Scoundrel put me on a path which led me to the Arrowsong Minstrel.

This class has two advantages, first of which being that it uses the Bard's level for the purposes of qualifying for Prestige Classes (this means the BAB component of arcane archer isn't an issue). Second, you can cast spells through your arrows at level 6.

So one might be able to go down this road:

Ninja 2 (sneak attack feat for immediate 2d6, vanishing trick)
Bard 6
Arcane Trickster 2
Arcane Archer 2
Arcane Trickster 8

This leaves you with 7d6 Sneak Attack, Spellstrike and Imbue Arrow (for both direct fire and AOE spells), Vanishing Trick, and 6th level bard spells.

Not exactly as powerful as a full caster, but another interesting way to go about it.

[Caedus13]

I'm actually just building one of these, even called it my Arcane Sniper as well. right now I have

Human, stats with 25 pt-buy 14 Str, 17 Dex, 12 Con, 15 Int (17 adj), 12 Wis, 7 Cha

Slayer (Sniper) 1-2
Exploiter Wizard 1
Slayer 3-6
Arcane Archer 1-3
Arcane Trickster 1-10

Spells at level:
3: 0th, 1st
10: 2nd
12: 3rd
14: 4th
16: 5th
18: 6th
20: 7th

Traits: Magical Knack, Reactionary

Feat at 1: Point-Blank Shot
Human Bonus Feat at 1: Precise Shot
Combat Style Feat at 2: Focused Shot
Feat at 3: Rapid Shot
Feat at 5: Experienced Sneak Attacker
Weapon Training at 5: Longbow
Feat at 7: Spell Focus (Evocation)
Combat Style Feat at 7: Improved Precise Shot? Clustered Shots?
Combat Trick at 7: Bullseye Shot
Feat at 9: Greater Spell Focus (Evocation)
Feat at 11: Selective Spell
Feat at 13: Maximize Spell
Feat at 15: Quicken Spell
Feat at 17: Spell Perfection (Fire Snake, Maximize)
Feat at 19: Clustered Shots?

Spells:
1: Vanish, True Strike, Gravity Bow, Burning Hands
2: Glitterdust, Sonic Scream, Selective Burning Hands, Invisibility
3: Lightning Bolt, Selective Sonic Scream
4: Greater Invisibility, Detonate, Selective Lightning Bolt
5: Quickened True Strike, Quickened Burning Hands, Fire Snake, Selective Detonate
6: Selective Fire Snake, Antimagic Field, Cold Ice Strike, Maximized Lightning Bolt, Selective Maximized Sonic Scream, Quickened Glitterdust
7: Delayed Blast Fireball, Selective Cold Ice Strike, Maximized Detonate, Selective Maximized Lightning Bolt

BAB suffers (caps at 14), as does hit die (avg 7.8), but has 8d6 sneak attack (plus Slayer level of 6 when sniping) and can cast up to 7th-level spells of the Wizard spell list.

It can use invisibility and glitterdust to get sneak attack damage, and with quickened spells/cold ice strike launch 2 imbued arrows per turn.

Havent played it yet but really want to