So I might be playing in a gestalt way of the wicked campaign soon and was wanting some advice.
I want to play a Wizard/Cleric focused on buffing/debuffing and control with crafting thrown in as well.
Gestalt of 2 classes.
A single template (with ability score increases removed) is available at the cost of levels equal to the CR increase (e.g. quickling fighter 1/rogue 2) and can be chosen later instead of at character creation.
Automatic Bonus Progression(though weapon/armour abilities don't count against attunement and an individual weapon/set of armour is limited to +5 worth of abilities).
Stat array of (18,16,14,12,10,8).
Allowed races and classes are Paizo.
+2 Skill ranks higher than the normal that you get per level.
1 feat per HD/class level instead of per 2HD/class level(Leadership and Sacred Geometry banned).
Maximum HP per level.
1,500gp.
The three feats, Power Attack, Deadly Aim and Combat Expertise are no longer feats but combat 'options' that any character, NPC or monster may use at any time they choose. Characters count as having these feats for the purpose of qualifying for other feats and abilities.
The feat Weapon Finesse no longer exists and any character, NPC or monster may use their dexterity modifier in place of their strength modifier with any 'finessable' weapon. Characters count as having this feat for the purpose of qualifying for other feats and abilities.
The feats Two-Weapon Fighting and Vital Strike automatically upgrade into their Improved and Greater versions when the requisite BAB and DEX score is reached, they count as themselves AND the Improved and Greater versions once the requisite BAB is reached for the purpose of qualifying for other feats and abilities.
ANY Improved Combat Maneuver feat now automatically scales into it's Greater version when the BAB prerequisites are reached and counts as both feats for other prerequisites. Performing combat maneuvers now only provoke AoO's from a failed combat maneuver attempt.
Expanded Crafting
Crafting base weapons/armour/etc. still works the same with the required Craft(item) skill requirements with the added ability to take metal materials from existing items. For example, you find a Cold Iron longsword but want a Cold Iron Greatsword. Put 1/3 the original weapons worth towards the crafting cost of the new weapon (10gp in the Cold Iron Longswords case of the 33.3gp required raw materials for a Cold Iron Greatsword). This makes reforging existing weapons better than simply buying the raw materials.
In a similar vein to an Arcanist ability, special abilities from other weapons, shields, armour or almost any magical item can be 'cannibalised' and added to another weapon in replacement of the spells usually expended, rendering the original weapon mundane. For example you take the magic from a +1 Frost Longsword and add it to your +2 Longsword, ending up with a mundane Longsword and a +3 Frost Longsword(paying the usual amount of gold such a bonus increase would incur minus half the cost of the cannibalised weapon).
My current Idea is an Abjurer/Cleric of Groetus who took the madness and darkness domains.
Init 2; Senses ; Perception 11
DEFENSE
AC 10; Touch 10; Flat-Footed 10
HP 27; Non-Lethal —
Fort 5 ; Ref 2 ; Will 8
Resist 5 force
OFFENSE
Speed 30ft;
Spells Known/Prepared
W=wizard spell C=cleric spell D=domain spell.
2nd—Glitterdust(W), Protection From Arrows(W), Bull's Strength(C), Aid(C), Blindness/Deafness(C[D])
1st—Grease(W), Shield(W), Obscuring Mist(W), Disguise Self(W), Bless(C), Doom(C), Bane(C), Confusion, Lesser(C[D])
0th—Detect Magic(W), Light(W), Ghost Sound(W), Create Water(C), Detect Poison(C), Mending(C), Guidance(C)
Opposition schools are divination and enchantment.
STATISTICS
Str 8, Dex 10, Con 12, Int 20, Wis 18, Cha 14
Base Atk +2; CMB 1
Feats blind fight, scribe scroll, Craft Wondrous Item, Brew Potion, Skill Focus(Spellcraft)
Skills Bluff 9, Craft: Weapons 9, Diplomacy 8, Knowledge Arcana 9, Knowledge Dungeoneering 9, Knowledge Engineering 9, Knowledge History 9, Knowledge Nobility 9, Knowledge Planes 9, Knowledge Religion 9, Perception 11, Sense Motive 10, Spellcraft 14, Use Magic Device 3
Languages common, infernal, abyssal, necral, elven, draconic.
SQ Arcane Bond(Item[mwk Quarterstaff]) (Ex/Sp), resistance (Ex), Protective Ward 8/day (Su), Channel Positive Energy 2d6 (Su), Touch of Darkness 7/day (Sp), Vision of Madness 7/day (Sp)
Gear Pearl of power 1st level, Travelers any tool, Trail Rations(10); Money 249 gp
I also don't know much about the AP except that you get to be evil. The GM said that we are already past the prison break and are acting under a man named Thorn(I believe that was his name)
But I mainly want advice on feats, spells or archetypes that could help me fill out this role better. Anything published by paizo is allowed.
Would any arcane discoveries be worth taking?
If you're being an Abjurer, be sure to take the Counterspell focused school. It's a really nice focused school, and if you're going to focus in Abjuration there's really no point in taking anything else. Domain choice is excellent. Opposition school choice is very good, especially since Cleric gets most of the divinations that matter anyways.
I personally would ditch skill focus (spellcraft) and brew potion. Potions are probably one of the worse crafting choices, and with access to both the cleric and wizard spell list you'll almost never have to pay the +5 DC penalty for missing a spell component and don't need a very high spellcraft check to craft. Spell Focus is a great filler feat at the 1st level if you can't think of anything better to take.
As for Arcane Discoveries, they're all over the board. I'm a big fan of Fast Study, but its usefulness really depends on your and your GM's style. Opposition Research is great if opposition schools really bug you. True Name is really devious, but like any outsider-relations ability it depends on your GM's temperment.
Well I kinda want to stick with the vanilla abjuration school because the energy resistance power doesn't specify what energy type it can be used for any energy type including force and I'm not going to have much AC so I'm going yo need the force barrier thing. i could see getting rid of brew potion but I want something useful in its place, not just filler. I'm thinking the skill focus is still worth it because I want to be able to get a lot of items earlier than usual and I won't have the prerequisite spells at the lower levels.
It might be better for one player to be Cleric/something and another player be Wizard/Something when going gestalt. There are so many good spells on the Wizard and Cleric lists that your biggest problem is going to be deciding which spell to cast using your single standard action per round. If two people have the spells, you can cast two of them in a round instead of just one.
Well in most of my recent games I haven't had much casting available to me. That and the fact that most other people are coming at this with a lot of gishy type setups I think it'd be fun to play a character who has to worry about whi ch good spell to cast. I'm not worried about the harm of action economy. Though that was one reason I wanted to pick up brew potion. So I could pass pit some buffs before the fight and let the others decide when they want them.
if you really want to go double full-caster (which is not an optimal choice), I'd suggest sticking to one casting stat... a wildblooded sorcerer with the empyreal bloodline is a Wisdom based arcane caster! Plus it gives you some fallen angel flavor.
I'm not sure about what specifically you want from cleric but empyreal sorc/shaman could really get a lot of mileage out of wisdom with it governing casting for both classes and the DCs for hexes.
Did your GM specifically give you permission to use the abjuration school power to resist force or other, non- 'energy type' effects?
Because although it is written poorly, energy types are fire, cold, acid, electricity and sonic. Force is actually not an energy type. This was discussed in the other thread you made.
If you don't check with the GM (get him to read the ability and make a judgement call) you could be in for a very nasty suprise when he vetoes your interpretation.
Did your GM specifically give you permission to use the abjuration school power to resist force or other, non- 'energy type' effects?
Because although it is written poorly, energy types are fire, cold, acid, electricity and sonic. Force is actually not an energy type. This was discussed in the other thread you made.
If you don't check with the GM (get him to read the ability and make a judgement call) you could be in for a very nasty suprise when he vetoes your interpretation.
Fair but the GM is letting a few other things that are hazy like that slide. If it doesn't work then I get energy resist 5 to an element of my choice. Not amazing but not terrible. As i said earlier im looking for as many buffs to my ac as possible so I don't want to trade out he other school power either.
if you really want to go double full-caster (which is not an optimal choice), I'd suggest sticking to one casting stat... a wildblooded sorcerer with the empyreal bloodline is a Wisdom based arcane caster! Plus it gives you some fallen angel flavor.
I'm not sure about what specifically you want from cleric but empyreal sorc/shaman could really get a lot of mileage out of wisdom with it governing casting for both classes and the DCs for hexes.
I want the domains from cleric. Madness is great. Give an enemy a bonus on skill checks and a penalty to attack rolls and saving throws. Darkness gives some neat powers too.
I was thinking of taking ecclesitheurge for more spell versatility and less armour dependancy. That divine bond also gives one more spell per day from the entire cleric list that seems really good to me. And all i lose out on is some channel dice.
Does anyone know any important buffs that aren't in the CRB. The last time I played an actual caster that was my only resource.
Also I'm not really worried about my ca sting stat be ca use of automatic bonus progression I'll end up with a good bonus to both int and wisdom.
As for archetypes I'm not a good man to go to with wizard archetypes. I can say that for clerics there isn't much of interest as long as you want two domains. The ecclisitheurge is of minimal use unless you just want some arcane spells to be cast as a cleric spell. IF you decide that a second domain is not a must then herald caller looks good for the added control of more monsters and more skills. Though an evangelist is perhaps the best buffer in the game with even a minimal amount of charisma. Finally a cloistered cleric in this particular instance isn't horrible; more skills and some item creation feat isn't the worst trade for a domain for your character.
Well I figured one of the main advantages of this set up I'm super versatile so why not play that up even more. With ecclesitheurge all I lose is armour and and my second channel die. In return I get an extra spell from The entire cleric spell list and I get a nice little buff.
I don't want to go evangelist because one guy was talking about playing a master/summoner bard. So I don't think I need to worry about bard song or summoning.
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If you don't play a lot of casters, it's worth it to check out the basics for each class individually. I'd read over Treantmonk's wizard guide (unfortunately out of date, but good for the fundamentals of wizarding), and the support cleric, bad touch cleric, and pure casting cleric parts of this guide, and maybe some of the other sections like spells.
I like ecclesitheurge for wizard//cleric, because once you've passed up on armour as a wizard there's practically no cost for the archetype. Madness is probably the best call for your primary domain since it has a lot of spells not normally on the cleric list.
Are you sure about abjuration as a school? Unless your GM is very lenient about the energy resistance ability you're not going to get that much defensive benefit from it (spending a standard action to get a small deflection bonus is pretty meh). If you're worried about defense, consider swapping your 14 Cha with your 10 Dex - and make sure to use Mage Armor, with the long duration it's much more useful to you than Shield! Mirror Image is also probably a better 2nd level choice than Protection from Arrows.
Finally a cloistered cleric in this particular instance isn't horrible; more skills and some item creation feat isn't the worst trade for a domain for your character.
It's not just a domain, you also lose a normal spell slot every level. Which isn't as big a deal when you also have wizard slots, but it's still not worth what you get, especially when you have a high Int and a houseruled bonus 2 skill points, and Scribe Scroll as a wizard bonus feat.
My advice would be to focus more on being the cleric than the wizard in this instance. My logic is that you have the ability to make your foes curl up into a ball thanks to darkness and madness powers. At the same time your arcane abilities, especially for an abjurer, will provide very nice defenses and save or dies. Mirror images and self protection spells of all kinds will make you hard to kill even in no armor.
... In terms of stat allocation I would give INT the better score because you need extra high DC for the save or dies and the control spells. The cleric spells are better for buffing and have no need of DC.
This advice is contradictory. If you're using the cleric side for control/debuffing you need a good Wis, and if you're using wizard for protection effects you don't need as much Int. Of course, with OP's starting stats he should be able to keep both casting stats respectably high.
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The Madness domain's 8th level power is a save or suck. You've also got Blindness from the Darkness domain and Hold Person and Bestow Curse as general cleric spells (the wizard gets these too, but a level later).
Save or die aren't necessarily the best spells for a "god" wizard to use, and a lot of good battlefield control spells don't have a save (like Black Tentacles), or are have effects regardless of saving throws (like Grease, Wall of Stone, or Glitterdust - still useful as anti-invisibility). Note that these are all spells the cleric doesn't have.
@weirdo
I'm going to grab a haramaki and use that till I can pick I can pick up a wand of Mage armour. The charisma is so I have a few uses of channel energy because it isn't guaranteed if anybody else will be able to heal and in the event of everybody being weak I could drop obscuring mist and then start channeling. Also I heard that decent charisma is important in this AP. So with the abjuration school power which also benefits those around me I'll have 12 ac which is pathetic but I'll be relying on the others in the part to soak up damage. Th e abjuration ac Power also lasts for like 5 rounds. I have to prepare protection from arrows because I'm am abjurer specialist.
I'm also not too worried about save dcs because the madness domain power has no saving throw and applies a penalty to saving throws.
Also thanks for the guide link I've Read treantmonks monk guide but I didn't know he had a caster one.
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...and Shield is necessary instead of Mage Armour because Mage Armour is actually a conjuration spell. Seriously, are you sure you want Abjuration as your specialty school when it doesn't even get the two best low-level wizard defenses? The protective aura is really not that great a way to use a standard action, compared to the benefit of having useful spells. If you took Conjuration (Teleportation) you could have Mage Armor and Mirror Image (with Glitterdust as your 2nd level school spell), and you'd get the ability to teleport away from a threat as a swift action.
Are you aware that the haramaki would cost you all of your cleric powers if you choose to take Ecclesitheurge?
Cha 10 still gives you 3 uses of Channel Energy, and while I'm not familiar with the AP I'm skeptical that +2 uses of channel, Diplomacy, and Bluff is going to be worth more than +2 AC, Reflex (your one poor save), and Initiative.
Are you aware that the haramaki would cost you all of your cleric powers if you choose to take Ecclesitheurge?
And that's why you don't make character edits at midnight. But I don't think it'll be too long before I can gt a wand if Mage armour so I'm not too worried. If the standard cation for ac didn't last as long a it did then I'd say it's useless but it'll help me and those around me. On the issue of charisma in the AP apparently it's got such a need for different skills that the AP reccomends the +2 skill point house rule.
Reading back over my sheet I just realized that I had an additional 2nd level wizard spell that I could prepare. So I can prepare mirror image in that slot for more defense.