Magus / Eldritch Knight? Work with me.

[lex_dm]

There has been a fair share of comparison with Eldritch and Magus, although i'm looking at the prestige class and I think its more feat related.

I'm hoping I can get an expert's opinion on Eldritch might here.

Generally I wouldnt be interested in Arcane Strike...

Our DM integrated the Stamina system, which I'm not sure if you are familiar with but for our purpose it allows me to hold on to Arcane Strike for more than 1 round.

This I should think, makes Arcane Strike viable if not broken..So I need an expert on Arcane strike and also on how to guide my Magus lvl 9 to master it.

Any thoughts?

[Kurald Galain]

Well, a Magus should generally avoid arcane strike, because you only rarely have a swift action to spare on it (which you'll be spending on enchant weapon, hasting yourself, various arcana and defensive items, and quickened spells). This is true even with stamina: early in combat you have better things to use your swift on, and late in combat the stamina makes no difference. Save your feat for something else.

Also, a straight Magus is simply better than a Magus/Eldritch Knight. This is because the Magus has a lot of good class features (e.g. arcana) and the EK gets none of those, and loses a level of spellcasting... and you don't even get a better to-hit as EK because you'll miss out on your enchant weapon ability (e.g. Magus 9 gets +3 to his weapon, Magus 7 / EK 2 does not). There are some good dips or prestiges for a Magus but EK isn't it.

Here's a Magus guide for you.

[lex_dm]

Kurald Galain wrote:

Well, a Magus should generally avoid arcane strike, because you only rarely have a swift action to spare on it (which you'll be spending on enchant weapon, hasting yourself, various arcana and defensive items, and quickened spells). This is true even with stamina: early in combat you have better things to use your swift on, and late in combat the stamina makes no difference. Save your feat for something else.

Also, a straight Magus is simply better than a Magus/Eldritch Knight. This is because the Magus has a lot of good class features (e.g. arcana) and the EK gets none of those, and loses a level of spellcasting... and you don't even get a better to-hit as EK because you'll miss out on your enchant weapon ability (e.g. Magus 9 gets +3 to his weapon, Magus 7 / EK 2 does not). There are some good dips or prestiges for a Magus but EK isn't it.

Here's a Magus guide for you.

So the extra turns granted by Stamina for Arcane Strike do little to better it? I was thinking about the feats related to schools that the EK has access to, may be broken is the first though that crossed my mind (take 1 level here to access them..worth it?)

So far my team makes up for Haste and enchant weapon really outlasts most combats...but I do see your point moving forward.

BTW: My Magus is lvl9 now and other than reaching lvl 10 for 4th lvl spells I see little point in continuing (did I mention he is a Kensai/blackblade?)...any dips you do recommend?

Thanks Kurald.

[LoneKnave]

Your blackblade and kensai features stop advancing if you dip put. Unless you want to leave your blackblade in the scabbard forever (not that it doesn't become kinda obsolete on its own anyway), you need to keep on being a Magus.

[Kurald Galain]

lex_dm wrote:

So the extra turns granted by Stamina for Arcane Strike do little to better it?

Well, not really. In a typical combat, on the first turn I'd use my swift action to enchant my weapon (because that's better than arcane strike). On the second turn, I'd likely use a buffing swift action, such as Hasted Assault or Bane Baldric (because that's also better than arcane strike). On the third, if I haven't used an immediate action so far, I have my pick of a Spellstoring weapon, a quickened spell, or spell recall (all of which is also better than arcane strike).

Given how many swift action abilities a Magus has, it turns out that arcane strike just isn't high enough a priority to spend feats on.

Quote:

I was thinking about the feats related to schools that the EK has access to, may be broken is the first though that crossed my mind (take 1 level here to access them..worth it?)

I'm not sure what you refer to?

Quote:

BTW: My Magus is lvl9 now and other than reaching lvl 10 for 4th lvl spells I see little point in continuing (did I mention he is a Kensai/blackblade?)...any dips you do recommend?

Wizard or sorcerer, most likely. Wizard for either diviner's rerolls or evoker's element switching; or Sorcerer for a draconic/orc-blooded's damage bonus.

[lex_dm]

Kurald Galain wrote:

lex_dm wrote:

So the extra turns granted by Stamina for Arcane Strike do little to better it?

Well, not really. In a typical combat, on the first turn I'd use my swift action to enchant my weapon (because that's better than arcane strike). On the second turn, I'd likely use a buffing swift action, such as Hasted Assault or Bane Baldric (because that's also better than arcane strike). On the third, if I haven't used an immediate action so far, I have my pick of a Spellstoring weapon, a quickened spell, or spell recall (all of which is also better than arcane strike).

Given how many swift action abilities a Magus has, it turns out that arcane strike just isn't high enough a priority to spend feats on.

Quote:

I was thinking about the feats related to schools that the EK has access to, may be broken is the first though that crossed my mind (take 1 level here to access them..worth it?)

I'm not sure what you refer to?

Quote:

BTW: My Magus is lvl9 now and other than reaching lvl 10 for 4th lvl spells I see little point in continuing (did I mention he is a Kensai/blackblade?)...any dips you do recommend?

Wizard or sorcerer, most likely. Wizard for either diviner's rerolls or evoker's element switching; or Sorcerer for a draconic/orc-blooded's damage bonus.

True, our combats like most of them out there at this point last 3-4 rounds...so I guess I dont have time to do all of it.

You'll have to forgive me about the feats I previously mentioned, I double checked because It was strange you didnt know them and then I realize that OGC website was giving me third party options.

Feats were pretty neat, they had as a requisite to be lvl 1 in Eldritch class and have spell focus on the school that the feat was related to.

But alas they are not acceptable (extra turns with those effects and you would had probably agreed with me).

I will look into those archetypes,although 12th lvl Arcanas look kinda good..

Since you know your way around a Magus, I would appreciate further suggestions on Multi classing and feats.. consider my Magus doesnt have recall or knowledge pool or blending.

[Derek Dalton]

The Magus is The Eldritch Knight in class form.

[Alleran]

Derek Dalton wrote:

The Magus is The Eldritch Knight in class form.

Not exactly, no. The Magus can certainly do the "Magic Warrior" thing out of the box (EK builds take a while to get going and generally need a bit more thought), and has several class features and such, but in exchange for these benefits it cannot obtain 9th level spells and has a very diminished spell list in comparison with the Eldritch Knight (and the Sorc/Wiz list is the best in the game).

Magus is good for combat with some caster stuff on the side, but it will be outpaced by a competent EK.

[GeneMemeScene]

Alleran wrote:

Derek Dalton wrote:

The Magus is The Eldritch Knight in class form.

Not exactly, no. The Magus can certainly do the "Magic Warrior" thing out of the box (EK builds take a while to get going and generally need a bit more thought), and has several class features and such, but in exchange for these benefits it cannot obtain 9th level spells and has a very diminished spell list in comparison with the Eldritch Knight (and the Sorc/Wiz list is the best in the game).

Magus is good for combat with some caster stuff on the side, but it will be outpaced by a competent EK.

Though a Magus into Eldritch Knight will be outclassed by a pure Magus.

[Alleran]

GeneMemeScene wrote:

Alleran wrote:

Derek Dalton wrote:

The Magus is The Eldritch Knight in class form.

Not exactly, no. The Magus can certainly do the "Magic Warrior" thing out of the box (EK builds take a while to get going and generally need a bit more thought), and has several class features and such, but in exchange for these benefits it cannot obtain 9th level spells and has a very diminished spell list in comparison with the Eldritch Knight (and the Sorc/Wiz list is the best in the game).

Magus is good for combat with some caster stuff on the side, but it will be outpaced by a competent EK.

Though a Magus into Eldritch Knight will be outclassed by a pure Magus.

Yes, Eldritch Knight doesn't really advance a lot of what makes the Magus useful.

[Kurald Galain]

Alleran wrote:

Derek Dalton wrote:

The Magus is The Eldritch Knight in class form.

Not exactly, no. The Magus can certainly do the "Magic Warrior" thing out of the box (EK builds take a while to get going and generally need a bit more thought), and has several class features and such, but in exchange for these benefits it cannot obtain 9th level spells

Actually, no.

The EK's only advantage is that it gets 7th to 9th level spells... but it only gets those at level 15 and up (by which point I'd be wondering why you aren't playing a pure Wizard instead). And let's face it, most campaigns never get that high anyway.

By contrast, the Magus gets a big action economy advantage straight from level one. Plus it has better defense, hit points, and saving throws. And it has a wide and versatile spell list, plus easy access to the wizard list via Spell Blending. Yes, the full wizard list is still better, but not by much.

The Magus is a gish. The EK is a wizard with a sword in his hand.

[Derek Dalton]

The Magus and The Swashbuckler are in essence two Prestige Classes made into full classes. Yes they are different from the prestige classes but they are imitations of them. Which is better is not my argument at all.