I have been reading the rules for the Warpriest's Sacred Weapon and I was intrigued by the line by "Whenever the warpriest hits with his sacred weapon, the weapon damage is based on his level and not the weapon type."
I understand that it is usually designed so that if your sacred weapon is a dagger, it now deals 1d6, and so on and so forth.
I was wondering, however, if my sacred weapon could be a Poisoned Sand Tube. Because the rules are if it hits it deals the sacred weapon damage, when the sand is blown from the tube and hits someone, it now deals damage based on my level and not the weapon type so in this case sand particles.
In essence I have created a 1d6, 15 foot cone weapon, that scales. Rules as written, is this legal?
Problem here is that the Poison Sand Tube doesn't do damage.
So you scale up the damage portion of a weapon that does no damage.
Still no damage.
It works for any weapon that does damage though.
Shuriken, for instance...
Which part of that quote makes it wrong?
It is not a bomb, it does not deal energy damage, and it is under the weapon section in UE, and not labeled as an alchemical item.
They can be "loaded with unpoisoned sand". Sand isn't an "alchemical item".
They can be "loaded with unpoisoned sand". Sand isn't an "alchemical item".
Sure it is. It's the load for an alchemical weapon. It's just a very cheap alchemical item.
They can be "loaded with unpoisoned sand".
They can indeed, but that sand does no damage. It does act as an irritant, but Sacred Weapon doesn't affect DCs.
However, the Sacred Weapon class ability does say that the weapon's damage becomes a factor of the class ability, and not the weapon itself "The weapon damage is based on his level, and not the weapon type", which would suggest that this would actually work.
Even if it did work though, you'd have a ranged weapon affecting a 15ft. cone, and you'd provoke AoO from anyone close enough.
It deals no damage and sacred weapon increases damage.
It's the equivalent of increasing the acid damage of a snowball.
Sacred weapon doesn't increase damage, it replaces it.
Saying that, I doubt I'd let this work in a home game.
They can be "loaded with unpoisoned sand". Sand isn't an "alchemical item".Sure it is. It's the load for an alchemical weapon. It's just a very cheap alchemical item.
It is? Cool! What's the craft DC to make sand?
Seriously, what part of a bamboo tube filled with sand is an alchemical item? Is a vial filled with sand an alchemical item too?
It still doesn't do any weapon damage on it's own. I'm pretty sure it's not intended to work, and I wouldn't allow it. If you can convince a GM to allow it, fine, but expect table variation.
Oh, I wouldn't expect it to work. I just disagree with the reason you gave for it not working. I'd require a weapon capable of damaging something before it's damage could be increased.
Apocryphile: It says "This increase in damage" in the ability, not replace. If it was replace, you'd have to lower the damage if the weapon die was higher than sacred weapon damage.
Apocryphile: It says "This increase in damage" in the ability, not replace. If it was replace, you'd have to lower the damage if the weapon die was higher than sacred weapon damage.
You need to read the whole paragraph for it to fully make sense.
Sacred Weapon (Su): At 1st level, weapons wielded by a warpriest are charged with the power of his faith. In addition to the favored weapon of his deity, the warpriest can designate a weapon as a sacred weapon by selecting that weapon with the Weapon Focus feat; if he has multiple Weapon Focus feats, this ability applies to all of them. Whenever the warpriest hits with his sacred weapon, the weapon damage is based on his level and not the weapon type. The damage for Medium warpriests is given on the table above; see the table below for Small and Large warpriests. The warpriest can decide to use the weapon's base damage instead of the sacred weapon damage—this decision must be declared before the attack roll is made. (If the weapon's base damage exceeds the sacred weapon damage, its damage is unchanged.) This increase in damage does not affect any other aspect of the weapon, and doesn't apply to alchemical items, bombs, or other weapons that deal only energy damage.
Sacred weapon never decreases damage, but the ability clearly replaces the weapon damage (unless this would lower the damage). That's why the phrase "increase in damage" is used.
Oh, I read it Apocryphile. Did you notice this quote? "Whenever the warpriest hits with his sacred weapon, the weapon damage is based on his level and not the weapon type." Does a poison sand tube roll to hit? Nope, so the character never get to the rest of the ability.
As to increase, you're missing my point, but it doesn't matter at this point.
Sacred weapon says
Whenever the warpriest hits with his sacred weapon, the weapon damage is based on his level and not the weapon type.
But the poisoned sand tube doesn't do weapon damage. The weapon entry actually say this:
Poisoned sand tube 1 gp special special — — 1 lb. — —
So even if sacred weapon increases its damage in some abstract way, it doesn't matter. It never deals weapon damage.
They can be "loaded with unpoisoned sand". Sand isn't an "alchemical item".Sure it is. It's the load for an alchemical weapon. It's just a very cheap alchemical item.It is? Cool! What's the craft DC to make sand?
Seriously, what part of a bamboo tube filled with sand is an alchemical item? Is a vial filled with sand an alchemical item too?
About the same DC as the one to craft the ordinary stones you can propel with a sling. Loading the weapon with some kind of improvised ammunition doesn't change the type of the weapon itself.
Seriously, there is no deity with favored weapon (poisoned sand tube loaded with sand and not poison).
The weapon damage is based on his level which to me means it works.
When he hits with it. You never roll to hit with a poison sand tube.
The weapon damage is based on his level which to me means it works.
Ok. Let's run with this for a second. When and to whom does this damage apply? That's defined in the combat chapter. Making an attack roll, and meeting or exceeding the target AC, is the procedure that allows you to roll damage and subtract it from enemy HPs.
Therefore, the weapon damage of the PST is irrelevant, because it cannot apply.
They can be "loaded with unpoisoned sand". Sand isn't an "alchemical item".Sure it is. It's the load for an alchemical weapon. It's just a very cheap alchemical item.It is? Cool! What's the craft DC to make sand?
Seriously, what part of a bamboo tube filled with sand is an alchemical item? Is a vial filled with sand an alchemical item too?
About the same DC as the one to craft the ordinary stones you can propel with a sling. Loading the weapon with some kind of improvised ammunition doesn't change the type of the weapon itself
An alchemical weapon is a weapon you create with craft alchemy. Hence my asking which part did you make with alchemy? the bamboo tube or the sand? Because is you didn't use the skill with either, then it isn't one. A poison sand tube is NO different than a short-sword in that you CAN poison both. You can argue the poison is alchemical but the fact that the base weapon can be poisoned doesn't magically change it into an alchemical weapon.
Seriously, there is no deity with favored weapon (poisoned sand tube loaded with sand and not poison).
The ability works with any weapon you take a weapon focus in. You can do that with this weapon. It's having poison or not isn't a factor in it in ANY way.
A poison sand tube is NO different than a short-sword in that you CAN poison both.
Except in one important respect. However much or little damage the weapon damage of your sand tube is, a sand tube never does weapon damage. It does Special.
EDIT: Two, as noted above; you also don't make an attack roll with it. It also has no range or threat.
A poison sand tube is NO different than a short-sword in that you CAN poison both.Except in one important respect. However much or little damage the weapon damage of your sand tube is, a sand tube never does weapon damage. It does Special.
EDIT: Two, as noted above; you also don't make an attack roll with it. It also has no range or threat.
This is actually a HUGE point.
Ok, so say you argue that you replace the damage line with warpriest damage.Fine.
Now how does that weapon function at this point?
You replaced the "see text for how this weapon works" bit, now it is a 1d6 ranged weapon with....no range.
You can't use it as a melee weapon, it would become improvised and lose your Sacred Weapon bonuses.
You can't use it at range because it has no range increment.
Ah, but you say the "Special" column of the weapon table also says to refer to text.
Well, I then look at this whole paragraph and.....there's absolutely nothing about dealing damage.
No attack roll, so no damage boost from Sacred Weapon by RAW (as Graystone noted above).
No way to deal damage, so no way to replace it with Sacred Weapon damage.
A poison sand tube is NO different than a short-sword in that you CAN poison both.Except in one important respect. However much or little damage the weapon damage of your sand tube is, a sand tube never does weapon damage. It does Special.
EDIT: Two, as noted above; you also don't make an attack roll with it. It also has no range or threat.
That was said in the context of it being an alchemic weapons or not. It, of course, has other differences if you look at other aspects of the weapon. It was just meant to point out that despite the name, poison isn't an integral part of the weapon called a poison sand tube. It's just a common to poison it's sand to make it more effective.
In all honesty, this shouldn't be a weapon at all. It should be equipment instead as it has none of the normal weapon stats [hit, damage, crit, damage type].
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Just get a scatter firearm.Scatter firearms don't work either, because they disallow precision damage and effects that increase the weapon's damage die.
It says "its attack damage cannot be modified by precision damage or damage-increasing feats such as Vital Strike." As Sacred Weapon isn't a feat, seems possible to me.
It's still an interesting and legal option.
A poison sand tube is NO different than a short-sword in that you CAN poison both.Except in one important respect. However much or little damage the weapon damage of your sand tube is, a sand tube never does weapon damage. It does Special.
EDIT: Two, as noted above; you also don't make an attack roll with it. It also has no range or threat.
That was said in the context of it being an alchemic weapons or not. It, of course, has other differences if you look at other aspects of the weapon. It was just meant to point out that despite the name, poison isn't an integral part of the weapon called a poison sand tube. It's just a common to poison it's sand to make it more effective.
It seems to me that it is integral part of the weapon, hence its name. Blasting plain sand is just another special use of the weapon. It is only nominally a weapon; it is primarily a method of deploying poison, and incidentally can deploy sand. A sling is used to attack with a bullet, but can be used to attack with a stone. As a stone is to a sling bullet, so sand is to sprayed poison.
But it's a moot point, anyway, for reasons noted above.
A poison sand tube is NO different than a short-sword in that you CAN poison both.Except in one important respect. However much or little damage the weapon damage of your sand tube is, a sand tube never does weapon damage. It does Special.
EDIT: Two, as noted above; you also don't make an attack roll with it. It also has no range or threat.
That was said in the context of it being an alchemic weapons or not. It, of course, has other differences if you look at other aspects of the weapon. It was just meant to point out that despite the name, poison isn't an integral part of the weapon called a poison sand tube. It's just a common to poison it's sand to make it more effective.
It seems to me that it is integral part of the weapon, hence its name. Blasting plain sand is just another special use of the weapon. It is only nominally a weapon; it is primarily a method of deploying poison, and incidentally can deploy sand. A sling is used to attack with a bullet, but can be used to attack with a stone. As a stone is to a sling bullet, so sand is to sprayed poison.
But it's a moot point, anyway, for reasons noted above.
So in your opinion, an Injection spear and Launching crossbow are alchemical since both have 'ammo' that's alchemical? Sorry, it's only the 'ammo' that can be alchemical, not the weapon itself. Same with the sand. The only way you can call something an alchemical weapon is when it requires craft alchemy to make. At best, these weapons can have alchemical 'ammo' but are themselves normal weapons.
PS: It may be moot to the thread, but it's topic has been answered so I don't mind going off script a bit.