Just toying with the idea for a one-shot game.
So, I have two different builds in mind. The first one uses Dan Bong with Ricochet Shot to save myself the money/enhancement on Returning, plus squeeze some extra damage.
I opted out of Startoss feats because I imagine I'd mostly use Spell Combat, but I could totally fit them into the build, replacing Deadly Aim, Imp Critical and Greater Weapon Focus. I'd imagine the damage would be the same, overall. The one thing I don't like about Startoss is how Rapid Shot is unavailable with it (and how I cannot combine it with Spell Combat too).
Feats
1. Point-Blank Shot
H. Precise Shot
Free. Weapon Focus
3. Quick Draw
5. Deadly Aim, Rapid Shot
7. Martial Focus
9. Ricochet Shot
11. Improved Critical, Greater Weapon Focus
The other build is trickier...
I'd use the Exotic Weapon Proficiency to get Crystal Chakram proficiency (an obscure weapon I wouldn't have found without d20pfsrd), which counts as ammunition, so I could easily enchant it before battle with Greater Magic Weapon and Arcane Pool. Since they are destroyed after use, there's no point in using Returning on them either (and Ricochet Toss is not available either anyway). The problem is... how could I restock them? They are 20gp a pop and don't count as ammunition for Abundant Ammunition, I think.
This would be more like:
Feats
1. Point-Blank Shot
H. Precise Shot
Free. Weapon Focus
3. Quick Draw
5. Deadly Aim, Startoss Style
7. Startoss Comet
9. Startoss Shower
11. Improved Critical, Rapid Shot
So, which build do you like better?
AW well.
I've been thinking this build could really use a Spell Hurling Weapon and go Myrmidarch to skip Martial Focus.
I'll leave some suggestions here for you:
Returning Weapon: Magus spell. Spell Combat. No $$$
Belt of Mighty Hurling: Use Str for thrown weapons. None of your feats require more than 13 Dex.
Dagger: Melee Weapon. You can throw it. Part of the Throwing Weapon group (for Startoss style).
Advanced Weapon Training -> Weapon Master handbook. Focused Weapon lets you select a weapon from a fighter group and treat your fighter level equal to warpriest level for sacred weapon damage. Available at fighter level 9th, must have weapon training. Can only be taken by fighters. However, the Advanced Weapon Training (combat) feat can be taken by any character that has levels that count as fighter levels and has the weapon training class feature. Your Mymidarch archetype would do that.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
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Returning Weapon: Magus spell. Spell Combat. No $$$
Returning weapons have the annoying limit that they only return once per round, though.
Advanced Weapon Training -> Weapon Master handbook. Focused Weapon lets you select a weapon from a fighter group and treat your fighter level equal to warpriest level for sacred weapon damage. Available at fighter level 9th, must have weapon training. Can only be taken by fighters. However, the Advanced Weapon Training (combat) feat can be taken by any character that has levels that count as fighter levels and has the weapon training class feature.
I'm curious if you have found some good combos with that one?
A lot of people say that you have to use only the one weapon you chose to be prof with.
A starknife would fit into the martial weapons of melee and ranged. Except for people who believe that a thrown weapon like this is not a ranged weapon because its being used with a melee attack.. or something?
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Does a kensai have to choose the single melee weapon they become proficient with in weapon proficiency as their "chosen weapon"?
Couldn't they choose from another weapon they are proficient with?
By my reading, their chosen weapon is a "single martial or exotic melee weapon of his choice" as specified in the first line of the archetype. The duelist normally requires a light or one-handed piercing weapon (although oddly, not all of its class features do) and the kensai can also use e.g. a two-handed or a slashing weapon.
I think the intent of Eldritch Archer is to use it with a bow or crossbow (you know, because that's what the term "archer" means) but as written the archetype doesn't actually say that.
The Archetype also gives returning as an enchantment. Which can't be used with Bow and Crossbow..
Returning weapons have the annoying limit that they only return once per round, though.
Yeah, that is a problem. Quickdraw and the communal version of Returning Weapon should help alleviate it. Using a free action to sheath an returning weapon, especially a small one like a dagger, isn't out of the question.
I'm curious if you have found some good combos with that one?
Other than allowing a dagger's base damage to jump to a max of 2d8 at level 20 with focused weapon? No, not just yet, though I haven't been inclined to look too deeply. Most characters I make are more focused on versatility than pure specialization.
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Other than allowing a dagger's base damage to jump to a max of 2d8 at level 20 with focused weapon? No, not just yet, though I haven't been inclined to look too deeply. Most characters I make are more focused on versatility than pure specialization.
That sounds fancy, but at most levels it's basically the equivalent of Weapon Specialization.
(normally a Magus can do 1d8 damage, or 4.5, without too much trouble, this makes it 5.5 to 7 damage, or about +2 total). Not a bad trick but hardly impressive either, given how easily you can boost damage with spells.
I really want to recommend the new melee weapon handbook for a Magus but there just doesn't seem to be anything there that meshes with the class well :(
That sounds fancy, but at most levels it's basically the equivalent of Weapon Specialization.
Well, in one instance, yes. However, if you are planning to use Startoss Style and the Vital Strike chain, that 2d8 can become 6d8 (or higher with size increases).
Oh, found a solution to the returning weapon issue. There is actually a feat in the Handbook that makes thrown weapons viable. You must have fighter weapon training, or take a feat that allows you to count as having it for a weapon mastery feat (this feat only requires BAB +5). I'll summarize it below.
Ricochet Toss
Requires Quickdraw, BAB +6
Thrown weapons (not ammunition, darts, or splash weapons; basically anything that breaks on hit) immediately return to your hand after the attack resolves. You need throw anything for improvised weapons to return to you.
Weapon mastery feats are feats anyone can use, though they have an additional feat tax to even take them.
I'll leave some suggestions here for you:
Returning Weapon: Magus spell. Spell Combat. No $$$
Belt of Mighty Hurling: Use Str for thrown weapons. None of your feats require more than 13 Dex.
Dagger: Melee Weapon. You can throw it. Part of the Throwing Weapon group (for Startoss style).
Advanced Weapon Training -> Weapon Master handbook. Focused Weapon lets you select a weapon from a fighter group and treat your fighter level equal to warpriest level for sacred weapon damage. Available at fighter level 9th, must have weapon training. Can only be taken by fighters. However, the Advanced Weapon Training (combat) feat can be taken by any character that has levels that count as fighter levels and has the weapon training class feature. Your Mymidarch archetype would do that.
Unfortunately the Myrmidarch's Fighter Training ability only gives them effective fighter levels for the purpose of qualifying for feats, not for using them. They can eventually meet the prerequisites for Advanced Weapon Training (Focused Weapon), but it is useless since they have no Fighter levels.
Ignore returning and use a Blinkback Belt.
Or get a weapon with the Sharding special ability (Weapon Master's Handbook).
Unfortunately the Myrmidarch's Fighter Training ability only gives them effective fighter levels for the purpose of qualifying for feats, not for using them. They can eventually meet the prerequisites for Advanced Weapon Training (Focused Weapon), but it is useless since they have no Fighter levels.
I apologize but this makes absolutely no sense. Qualifying for a feat means that you can take the feat. If you HAVE the feat, you can USE the feat as long as you still QUALIFY for the feat. The Myrmidarch archetype grants the character the fighter's weapon training and effective levels in the fighter class for qualifying for the feat. It even goes farther to say that these levels stack with actual fighter levels if the character posses both Magus and Fighter class levels. Since you are using a feat to qualify for the advanced weapon training (focused weapon), the focused weapon must use your effective fighter level that you qualified for the feat with.
Unless you can show me a citation that supports your statement, I reject your claim of being unable to use a feat despite qualifying for it.
Unfortunately the Myrmidarch's Fighter Training ability only gives them effective fighter levels for the purpose of qualifying for feats, not for using them. They can eventually meet the prerequisites for Advanced Weapon Training (Focused Weapon), but it is useless since they have no Fighter levels.I apologize but this makes absolutely no sense. Qualifying for a feat means that you can take the feat. If you HAVE the feat, you can USE the feat as long as you still QUALIFY for the feat. The Myrmidarch archetype grants the character the fighter's weapon training and effective levels in the fighter class for qualifying for the feat. It even goes farther to say that these levels stack with actual fighter levels if the character posses both Magus and Fighter class levels. Since you are using a feat to qualify for the advanced weapon training (focused weapon), the focused weapon must use your effective fighter level that you qualified for the feat with.
There are differences between qualifying for a feat, being able to use that feat, and finding that feat to be useful. It simple isn't true that you can use any feat that you qualify for or that you will gain benefits from any feat that you qualify for.
A Fighter, for example, can select the Quicken Spell metamagic feat because it has no prerequisites, but since he lacks spell slots he won't be able to use it at all. On the other hand a Wizard with a DEX score of 6 can take and even use the Weapon Finesse feat, but with that DEX he won't find it to be beneficial. A Myrmidarch who selects Focused Weapon using Advanced Weapon Training is in a situation similar to the Wizard; he can take the feat and use the feat, but he won't actually get any benefits from doing so.
Let's break it down.
Myrmidarchs can select the feat Advanced Weapon Training because they have the Weapon Training class feature and they also have the Fighter Training class feature.
Fighter Training (Ex): At 7th level, a myrmidarch counts his magus level –3 as his fighter level for the purpose of qualifying for feats (if he has levels in fighter, these levels stack). At 10th level, the myrmidarch treats his magus levels as fighter levels for the purposes of fighter training. This ability replaces both knowledge pool and the fighter training the magus gains at 10th level.
Note the bolded portion. Myrmidarch levels only count as fighter levels for one purpose: qualifying for feats. For this purpose, and only for this purpose, the levels stack with Fighter levels. So a Fighter 2/Myrmidarch 10 would count as a 12th level Fighter for purposes of taking Greater Weapon Specialization, but only as a 2nd level Fighter for purposes of advancing the Bravery class feature.
So Bob the 9th level Myrmidarch is qualified to select the Advanced Weapon Training feat. This allows him to select one advanced weapon training option for his weapon group which is light blades. There are lot of choices that do not base their benefits on Fighter Level (Fighter's Finesse, Trained Grace, Dazzling Intimidation, etc.), and so they will work as well for him as they would for a Fighter.
But let's look at Focused Weapon. It says that
The fighter can deal damage with this weapon based on the damage of the warpriest’s sacred weapon class feature, treating his fighter level as his warpriest level.
What is Bob's fighter level? He was considered to have a Fighter Level of 6 for the purpose of qualifying for the feat, but only for that purpose. He actually has no levels of Fighter so his Fighter Level is zero. According to the feat description his weapon damage is the same as a zero level Warpriest which means that the weapon simply deals its normal damage. He can select this option and even use it, but like the clumsy Wizard using Weapon Finesse, he gains no actual benefits from it.
There is a close parallel here with the the Arcane Deed (Precise Strike) debate. Bob could select Arcane Deed for his 9th level Magus Arcana and use it to get a Swashbuckler Deed counting his Magus level as his Swashbuckler level to meet prerequisites. The effectiveness of some Deeds doesn't depend on Swashbuckler level and so they work fine for a Magus. But Precise Strike is useless without levels in Swashbuckler. So the question of whether your Magus level also counted for determining the effects of that Deed was critical. The debate was quite heated. Many people assumed that the Magus levels must count toward advancement because it made no sense that you could select an ability that was useless. It turns out that they were wrong. To end the debate, the new edition of the ACG added language explicitly stating that your Magus levels only count toward meeting the prerequisites. You can still select Precise Strike, but without dipping Swashbuckler it will not gain you anything. I believe that we have the same situation here.
Please don't assume that my position on the rules reflects my preference. I don't believe that there is a stronger advocate for the Myrmidarch on these boards than me. I love the archetype, and I was very excited by the idea of using Focused Weapon in a build until I realized its limitation. If we get clarification from Owen that it works as you say it does, no one will be happier than me. Failing that, unless you can cite rules text stating that you can count Magus levels as Fighter levels for more than just meeting prerequisites, the feat works as I have stated.