if you want to not provoke when attacking with your unarmed strikes yes. If you're just using natural attacks, no.
Yeah, it's a pretty bad archetype for that reason. You're better off dipping Monk and then just grabbing Kinetic Fist.
Yeah, it's a pretty bad archetype for that reason. You're better off dipping Monk and then just grabbing Kinetic Fist.
The archetype is Elemental Ascetic, he is talking about the wild talent that the archetype is built around.
although I can't say I blame you for forgetting. I can't say you are wrong about it being terrible to the point of being forgettable. Talent too.
Whoops.
Yeah, you need the Feats. It really should grant IUS for the purposes of using the Talent. You don't need to eat an extra Feat just to use Kinetic Blade, and that damn thing is multiple times better than the normal Blast AND can get reach.
no, just it's annoying to take a feat to use a class option.
TBH, taking Kinetic Blade and flavoring it as a Gauntlet (Light weapon, sucka) is hands down the superior option.
Your calculations are off, and you even quoted the reason why.
Kinetic Fist
You deal an additional 1d6 points of damage per 3 dice of your kinetic blast's damage (minimum 1d6), and this damage is of the same type as your kinetic blast's damage. This extra damage ignores spell resistance and doesn't apply any modifiers to your kinetic blast's damage, such as your Constitution modifier
Kinetic fist is doing 1d6+1d3+str, same for physical or energy blasts.
And kinetic fist goes to 2d6 with composite at lv7 or you need to wait till lv11 for normal blast to give 2d6.
Because you "add damage to each of your natural attacks and unarmed strikes until the beginning of your next turn." and "You deal an additional 1d6 points of damage per 3 dice of your kinetic blast's damage (minimum 1d6), and this damage is of the same type as your kinetic blast's damage." so it's saying that the damage you add is the additional damage.
hey Shiroi whats IUS short for?
Improved Unarmed Strike
nope, kinetic fist is damage that gets added to unarmed strikes and natural attacks. the damage it's adding is 1d6 per 3d6 of blast minimum 1d6. This form infusion takes away all your damage for the d6 you're adding to your other attacks. You don't do your normal blast damage. If you did you'd see similar wording to kinetic blade or something like.
You surround your body with energy or elemental matter from your kinetic abilities. You can use this form infusion as part of an attack action, a charge action, or a full-attack action to add damage to each of your natural attacks and unarmed strikes until the beginning of your next turn. Since kinetic fist is part of another action, using this wild talent doesn't provoke any additional attack of opportunity. You deal your normal blast damage plus an additional 1d6 points of damage per 3 dice of your kinetic blast's damage (minimum 1d6), and this damage is of the same type as your kinetic blast's damage. This extra damage ignores spell resistance and doesn't apply any modifiers to your kinetic blast's damage, such as your Constitution modifier.
Kinetic fist is separate from the blasts and blades.
So you are doing perfectly normal melee, with the flaming property (or whatever) basically. With a reliance on strength and everything. You don't get to enjoy the SADness that is kineticist. No CON to damage for you (as well as all those other sweet goodies)
Now, a monk/kineticist can be nice...but that is more of a style thing. While kineticists have a big scary attack, and it works GREAT when you have to move, it isn't actually a prime DPS class really. They are a 'bunch of tricky attacks, with some satisfactory DPS' class.
Regular archery adn TWF can still beat it out if you have the static bonuses to attacks- in fact, that is the main point of the elemental annhiliator (and that arhcetype does TWF without sacrificing its ability as a ranged class).
Yep. Damage isn't fists' strong point. But crowd control? Guarantee you sink that debuff? Sink multiple stacking debuffs sometimes, like the one from void that gives negative levels? Yeah. That's all about the fist.
Except it's already redundant with the Flurry of Blasts Infusion in that regard.
Single Ability Dependent. How many stats do you need to function with. Kineticist needs dex and con. If you go kinetic fist you need Str to hit, con for HP, dex for AC putting you to three stats instead of two.
To Be Honest.
what does SAD stand for?
As stated- Single Ability Dependant. As opposed to MAD- Multiple Ability dependant.
Lets look at a normal 2 handed fighter. They need strength, for damage and attack (main priority). They need con for health (secondary). Dex provides AC, saves, and initiative (secondary).
Lets look at monk: str for attack/damage (primary concen). Dex fo AC (needs to be high, since they don't have armor). Wis for AC and ki pool (needs to be high, since they don't have armor). Con for health (secondary concern)
That is why some people have problems with monks- their set up makes them NEED high scores in a lot of stats to function early on, which is hard on a point buy. This is also why some THIRST for dex to damge, since they want to remove a stat from the equation for both of the above.
Also, lets look at wizard: Int for spells/dcs (main priority), con (everyone could use health),..maybe dex (for AC and such- he can get spells and stand back for that though). Everything else can possibly be dumped. It is realtively easy to get comfortable wizard stats.
I am oversimplifying it, but generally, a class is seen as strong when they use less stats, since they put all of their point buy and money into boosting those stats.
Kineticists are the kings of SAD. One of their main combat stats is the one that every needs- Con. That is in fact why they have burn- to somewhat limit how awesome it is to be focused on such a great stat.
and path of war (what ever that is)Deadly Agility (Combat)
You have learned how to use your agility to greater purpose in battle.
Prerequisite(s): Weapon Finesse, base attack bonus +1.
Benefit(s): You may add your Dexterity modifier in place of your Strength modifier when wielding a light weapon or a weapon that gains the benefits of the Weapon Finesse feat (such as the rapier) when determining additional damage inflicted upon a successful attack.
This modifier to damage is not increased for two-handed weapons, but is not reduced for off-hand weapons.
Do note that Path of War and that feat are made by a third-party company rather than Paizo and are not official Pathfinder material. A high quality third-party, but something to keep in mind.
Kinetic fist isn't that good, that's why everyone says it's not very good. Only useful if you have lots of natural attacks. So if you had claw, claw, bite, gore, kick, kick, kick, kick, then you're starting to get some decent use from it.
well there is ...
Yep, plenty of options to minimize certain stats. Those often require you to spend resources though (numerous feats, maybe a weapon property), which could have been used for other purposes. Base kineticist only needs a single core rule book feat to forget about most stats entirely- weapon finesse. No agile weapons, slashing grace, etc.
Overall, the fist is not useful unless you can apply it to a ton of attacks. And honestly? The simplicity of base kineticist is probably better (since it has tons of nice options, and doesn't require a ton of resources to get them running)
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Yep. Damage isn't fists' strong point. But crowd control? Guarantee you sink that debuff? Sink multiple stacking debuffs sometimes, like the one from void that gives negative levels? Yeah. That's all about the fist.Except it's already redundant with the Flurry of Blasts Infusion in that regard.
Flurry of Blast can't land multiple debuffs, it can only land 1 with a decent penalty.
Unless you want to blow your wad on a single enemy and then be useless the rest of the day, neither does Fist. You'd need to eat Burn for every different Infusion.
Kinetic Fist is bad damage regardless.
On the flip side, I have been reading it as being eventually at will additional damage since unlike Kinetic Blade it doesn't have a once per round written in. Ergo, when it comes to Kinetic Blade vs. Kinetic Fist my answer would be take Kinetic Blade first, but if you can slid in additional damage feel free to.
I was under the impression that for Kinetic Fist you didn't need IUS since it would fall under the armed unarmed strikes clause. Am I wrong? And why?
I was under the impression that for Kinetic Fist you didn't need IUS since it would fall under the armed unarmed strikes clause. Am I wrong? And why?
The punchy archetype explicitly give the unarmed strike to its modified kinetic fist.
Which implies to me that the unmodified version DOESN'T get free unarmed strikes.
The kinetic fist is a rider on another weapon. It is effectively giving you "flaming" or what have you to your unarmed attacks and natural attacks. So if you unarmed attack would provoke without this, then it still does with it.
but you can't say the same for water or earth fists. watch out that man is going to attack you with his sweat! or ohh no! he has a rock!
...the heck? Gaining rock like armor around your flesh doesn't leave an impression?
Plus, water has cold. Have you NEVER SEEN JOJO?!
Yep. Damage isn't fists' strong point. But crowd control? Guarantee you sink that debuff? Sink multiple stacking debuffs sometimes, like the one from void that gives negative levels? Yeah. That's all about the fist.
This is what I found in my personal playtests; I remember something hilarious involving a 15th or 16th level kineticist (can't remember) actually getting use out of the otherwise hard-to-use Medusa's Wrath feat with Chilling Kinetic Fist: "Hi buddy. I'm going to hit you a bunch of times until you fail a Fortitude save against stagger now, k? And then I get two more attacks when that happens at my highest bonus. Thanks, see you next time!"