|
I'll admit that I was (and, somewhat still am) skeptical of the premise of the Evil AP.
I've always disliked the "evil" campaign, which to me, is just players being jerks and doing awful things to elves. None of that is compelling, at least to me.
So, when this was announced, I briefly considered skipping the AP and saving a few bucks in 2016. But, I want to give Paizo the benefit of the doubt.
Going through the descriptions of the first four volumes of the AP that have been released as of this post I am extremely interested in Hell's Vengeance, and am eager to see how Paizo handles this campaign to save the evil empire from the plucky good guys.
Anybody else undergone or undergoing a similar change of heart?
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Nah, I was onboard from the get-go- An AP, by its very nature, means that even an evil party has to be fighting cohesively for something.
A one-off of "Hurr hurr hurr let's burn all the villages!" wouldn't have caught my eye, but six AP entries spanning the struggle for a kingdom?
A chance to do an evil AP and show that villains can be effective characters without plot armor is all to the good.
And mark my words, I'm gonna save my players' characters who survive the endgame, and then beat them over the head with their own creations as NPCs in the future.
I've always disliked the "evil" campaign, which to me, is just players being jerks and doing awful things to elves.
Elves specifically? Do your players just not like elves?
I'll admit that I was (and, somewhat still am) skeptical of the premise of the Evil AP.
I've always disliked the "evil" campaign, which to me, is just players being jerks and doing awful things to elves. None of that is compelling, at least to me.
So, when this was announced, I briefly considered skipping the AP and saving a few bucks in 2016. But, I want to give Paizo the benefit of the doubt.
Going through the descriptions of the first four volumes of the AP that have been released as of this post I am extremely interested in Hell's Vengeance, and am eager to see how Paizo handles this campaign to save the evil empire from the plucky good guys.
Anybody else undergone or undergoing a similar change of heart?
Kind of. I'm still not really expecting to like this adventure path. However, Paizo have a good track record of making me like APs I'm initially uninterested in (I had zero interest in "deep, dark africa" stories, but I really liked Serpent's Skull. Similarly with Iron Gods, though I doubt I'll ever play it).
For me, it's going to hinge on whether they are just planning to give people a chance to be evil or whether they have their own take on it beyond just "being the baddie".
At the very least, I'm going to get some more Cheliax information, and that's a welcome consolation prize, even if I don't like the AP overall. :)
|
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
And mark my words, I'm gonna save my players' characters who survive the endgame, and then beat them over the head with their own creations as NPCs in the future.
well, the interesting denouement is to pit the Hell's Rebels PCs v. the Hell's Vengeance PCs in a massive throwdown to determine the final fate of Cheliax.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Elves specifically? Do your players just not like elves?
I've always disliked the "evil" campaign, which to me, is just players being jerks and doing awful things to elves.
OH, it's fun to just go out there and terrorize some elves. You know, that's what you do if you are evil.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Actually I just terrorize my players instead. Far more enjoyable...
Oh wait. This is an AP for evil players, not for evil GMs. My bad! ^^;;
OH, it's fun to just go out there and terrorize some elves. You know, that's what you do if you are evil.Elves specifically? Do your players just not like elves?
I've always disliked the "evil" campaign, which to me, is just players being jerks and doing awful things to elves.
I prefer to see elves as a part of everyone. Which is who I terrorize. Everyone.
|
I prefer to see elves as a part of everyone. Which is who I terrorize. Everyone.OH, it's fun to just go out there and terrorize some elves. You know, that's what you do if you are evil.Elves specifically? Do your players just not like elves?
I've always disliked the "evil" campaign, which to me, is just players being jerks and doing awful things to elves.
right, me I schedule this sort of thing, Elves are a Thursday sort of foe
|
|
And mark my words, I'm gonna save my players' characters who survive the endgame, and then beat them over the head with their own creations as NPCs in the future.well, the interesting denouement is to pit the Hell's Rebels PCs v. the Hell's Vengeance PCs in a massive throwdown to determine the final fate of Cheliax.
The PCs or the countries? If it's the countries, there's no contest. Ravounel can't win a war with the rest of Cheliax, period. Not only is there historical precedent,
If it's just the PCs, things get a bit murkier. Hell's Rebels has more content than a typical AP, what with the accidentally over-length second book and the deliberately over-length fourth book. As such, it reaches a slightly higher level than most APs (18th has been mooted). On the other hand, unless Hell's Vengeance ends at 16th level or earlier, the disparity won't matter, and the Vengeance PCs will likely have better gear. On the whole, still probably favoring Vengeance.
|
|
And mark my words, I'm gonna save my players' characters who survive the endgame, and then beat them over the head with their own creations as NPCs in the future.well, the interesting denouement is to pit the Hell's Rebels PCs v. the Hell's Vengeance PCs in a massive throwdown to determine the final fate of Cheliax.The PCs or the countries? If it's the countries, there's no contest. Ravounel can't win a war with the rest of Cheliax, period. Not only is there historical precedent, ** spoiler omitted **.
If it's just the PCs, things get a bit murkier. Hell's Rebels has more content than a typical AP, what with the accidentally over-length second book and the deliberately over-length fourth book. As such, it reaches a slightly higher level than most APs (18th has been mooted). On the other hand, unless Hell's Vengeance ends at 16th level or earlier, the disparity won't matter, and the Vengeance PCs will likely have better gear. On the whole, still probably favoring Vengeance.
Evil gear isn't better, only easier.
;-)
One could argue that being easier makes it better.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
And mark my words, I'm gonna save my players' characters who survive the endgame, and then beat them over the head with their own creations as NPCs in the future.
This guy knows how it's done!
|
OH, it's fun to just go out there and terrorize some elves. You know, that's what you do if you are evil.Elves specifically? Do your players just not like elves?
I've always disliked the "evil" campaign, which to me, is just players being jerks and doing awful things to elves.
Elf, the other white meat!
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
The chance to play an evil character is great, the chance to play an evil character supporting Cheliax is even better, but the chance to play an evil character supporting Cheliax against an Iomedae crusade? I'm 100% on board, let's get to kicking puppies and smashing bardic instruments.
Evil is fun, and we're getting an entire AP to be evil.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
And mark my words, I'm gonna save my players' characters who survive the endgame, and then beat them over the head with their own creations as NPCs in the future.well, the interesting denouement is to pit the Hell's Rebels PCs v. the Hell's Vengeance PCs in a massive throwdown to determine the final fate of Cheliax.
This was my group's plan for when we get around to running these.
I'm very excited for it. Enough so, that I went Subscription for it. Been playing Pathfinder since launch, but this is the thing that made me hit Subscribe!
I love Drow, and while I get to play as them often when I GM home games, I and my group have always wanted to do a proper Evil Campaign.
And yes, I can't wait to throw my group's Min-Maxed Bad Guy PCs back at them as villains in the future!
I'm very excited for it. Enough so, that I went Subscription for it. Been playing Pathfinder since launch, but this is the thing that made me hit Subscribe!
I love Drow, and while I get to play as them often when I GM home games, I and my group have always wanted to do a proper Evil Campaign.
And yes, I can't wait to throw my group's Min-Maxed Bad Guy PCs back at them as villains in the future!
Just have to be sure they don't 'max-min' the Bad Guys (or vice versa) so the second path is a cakewalk...
Just have to be sure they don't 'max-min' the Bad Guys (or vice versa) so the second path is a cakewalk...I'm very excited for it. Enough so, that I went Subscription for it. Been playing Pathfinder since launch, but this is the thing that made me hit Subscribe!
I love Drow, and while I get to play as them often when I GM home games, I and my group have always wanted to do a proper Evil Campaign.
And yes, I can't wait to throw my group's Min-Maxed Bad Guy PCs back at them as villains in the future!
That's always a challenge! I am looking forward to the player's guide so I can determine point buy and other restrictions. I know some people find it fun to smash through everything, one-shoting the bad guys constantly, but as both a GM and a Player, I prefer a bit of a challenge, and some risk. The best memories are when you've only got a few HP left, are just about out of spells and resources, yet you survive!
That would be Iron Gods. :-)
It's hard to judge a whole AP from just part 1 BUT . . I'll admit I don't like the evil AP. But this part was the usual well written and lavishly illustrated thing that lives up to Paizo's standards. And it does stress party unity and working together. Not letting it degenerate down to all the players killing each other. And it is not "I'm evil lets kill things."
It looks like fun! So yes I am strangely starting to like it!
Aren't ALL DM evil? :)