Inappropriately Sized Weapons + Weapon Proficiency feat in Society games


Rules Questions


Question: If you buy an weapon proficiency feat can you buy it at a size other than your size? If you are medium size can you buy the proficiency for small size? Assuming the proficiency would ALWAYS apply to that weapon size. Example: You spend a feat to buy Exotic Weapon Proficiency but for one weapon and instead take it as Exotic Weapon Proficiency size small NOT medium while the PC is size medium. Is this doable in Society play?


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Weapon proficiency applies to all sizes of that weapon. You don't pick a size when you select the feat.


Jeraa wrote:
Weapon proficiency applies to all sizes of that weapon. You don't pick a size when you select the feat.

You get a -2 penalty when using a weapon smaller or larger than your size category. I was assuming that you are trained in a particular size and are familiar with other sizes (thus the -2 penalty per size category).


That has nothing to do with proficiency. Your hands are simply too big/small or the handle is too big/small to wield effectively.

You could make a houserule for what you want, but as that isn't the actual rules you can't do it for Society play.

Grand Lodge

No. Proficiency is for a type of weapon in, basically, all sizes it can be made in.

All proficiency does is remove the -4 non-proficiency penalty, and, for a few weapons, open options for use (one handed wielding for bastard swords, for example) not available without it.

Using a weapon not sized for you is a -2 per size category difference, with the caveat that there are size differences that you cannot go past.

Medium wielder, medium weapon, no size penalty.
Medium wielder, small or large weapon, -2 to hit, with the caveat that light medium weapons cannot be wielded when small or smaller, nor can two-handed medium weapons be used when made large or larger.

Weapon Wielding categories:
Light Melee
One-Handed Melee
Two-Handed Melee

So, a weapon changes wielding category one step for each size step away from the "standard" size for the wielder, with a limit of no step below light, nor above two-handed.

So, a Light weapon can be made up to two categories larger, moving to -2 at one-handed size, and -4 at two-handed size. Equally, a two-handed weapon can be made two categories smaller, going to one-handed and -2, then light and -4. Lastly, a one-handed weapon can be made one category larger or smaller, with a -2 to hit either way, but either becoming two-handed if made larger, or light is made smaller.


No, this is not doable. Proficiency is proficiency, it doesn't specify size.


My thought is that if you are size small you are trained to use a size small version of the weapon. If you were size medium you were trained to use a medium size version. Understandable to get the penalty for using a larger or smaller size version. But if you were trained to use a smaller or larger size version then you would get penalties for using a different size of it.


No, you are trained in types of weapons, not sizes of weapons. If you are using an inappropriately sized weapon, you have penalties because it is inappropriately sized, not because you are not trained in using it.


Conversely, you're counted as proficient in the wrong-sized weapon. The classic example is the iconic barbarian Amiri with her Large bastard sword; she has Exotic Weapon (bastard sword), which covers the big one at a -2 and requiring her to two-hand what's normally a one-handed exotic weapon. However, were she to find a medium bastard sword, she could use that as any other bastard sword wielder in one hand.


The problem is Larry you're conflating the penalty types even though people keep reiterating them.

There are two types of penalties at play here.

There is a -4 penalty for non-proficiency in a weapon and a -2 penalty for each size category difference a weapon is from your size.

If a fighter tries use a medium bastard sword he would take a -4 penalty with it, and only be able to use it two handed.

Now, if our fighter took EWP bastard sword and tried to use a medium bastard sword he takes no penalty to his attack (and can use it one handed). Then he kills a giant who has a large bastard sword.

He decides to use the large bastard sword, and take a -2 penalty for doing so. If he didn't have EWP bastard sword he couldn't even use it as a weapon (because without EWP it's a two-handed weapon and a large two-handed weapon is unusable for a medium creature).

Now, if instead we use a falcata (one-handed exotic weapon), the fighter would take a -4 penalty without EWP. If he grabs the feat no penalty. If he finds a large falcata he can wield it at a -2 in two-hands. If he didn't have EWP he would take a -6 penalty for non-proficiency and size penalties, and could only wield it in two hands.

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Larry Heydorn wrote:
My thought is

That isn't how proficiency works.


As another example.

A kama is normally an exotic light weapon.
A fighter could wield a huge kama without the EWP feat in two hands at a -8 penalty. -4 for non proficiency, and -2 for each size category the weapon is larger than the wielder. It's a horrible idea but you could do it.


Claxon wrote:
If a fighter tries use a medium bastard sword he would take a -4 penalty with it, and only be able to use it two handed.

Everything spot on but a minor note here: A fighter can use a bastard sword two-handed without penalty because they are proficient with all martial weapons. So a Rogue for instance could use a bastard sword (without EWP) two-handed but would take the -4 nonproficiency penalty. Because bastard sword. They are weird.


fretgod99 wrote:
Claxon wrote:
If a fighter tries use a medium bastard sword he would take a -4 penalty with it, and only be able to use it two handed.
Everything spot on but a minor note here: A fighter can use a bastard sword two-handed without penalty because they are proficient with all martial weapons. So a Rogue for instance could use a bastard sword (without EWP) two-handed but would take the -4 nonproficiency penalty. Because bastard sword. They are weird.

You're absolutely right. Because bastard swords are weird.

Wasn't thinking about it when I was writing it out. Thanks for the correction.

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