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Bobbi is a lunar oracle who already has a dex of 7. She's been a fun character so far. Blind, clumsy, and with a chip a mile wide on her shoulder where the Blakros Clan are concerned. On the plus side, she rocks knowledge checks and is pretty okay as back up melee in a fight. Plus, she has a cute owl bear. Who doesn't love a character with a pet monster?
You can see her character sheet if you click my avatar.
She mainly fights with a long spear, but I'm finally getting real cash and considering magic weapons and such. I'd love for her to be able to fight with a fauchard. I was considering the cracked opalescent white pyramid for 1.5K to get exotic weapon proficiency, and then realized that only turns an exotic weapon into a martial one. So I looked at the next step up at the flawed for 3K. It grants EWP at the cost of 3000gp and another -2 to dex.
If any character can handle another -2 to dex, it's Bobbi. She gets charisma to AC, initiative and reflex saves. So... she would have a dex of 5, and trip everywhere she goes, but hey... She's already clumsy.
So the real question is... Is it worth 3K in PFS to get a fauchard? For 3K I could have an adamantine long spear, or most of an attribute booster. I'd love to get a fauchard and eventually make it keen, but is it worth it if I have to pay 3K and take another ding to dex to do so? Can you guys help me with the DPS math?
Hmm
I'd take that drawback for the upgarde from Longspear to Fauchard.
+1 damage, 50% better crit-contribution to damage (20/x3 [2] to 18-20/x2 [3]), and the option of trying to trip someone when you really dnt want him meleeing the wizard.
Say you're comparing a +2 belt of strength to an upgrade to masterwork fauchard+ioun stone. +1 to attack and damage compared to 1d8 going to 1d10 and a 20/*3 going to a 18-20/*2 crit.
Suppose you hit 50% of the time with the fauchard, 55% with the spear/belt. Average base damage is the same so it cancels out of the comparison.
Fauchard: 0.5 + (0.15*0.5) = 0.575
Spear/belt: 0.55 + (2*0.05*0.55) = 0.605
The spear is marginally better just now. (Edit: Assuming that the extra damage from the *3 crit isn't wasted on an enemy who can be taken down by a *2 crit, anyway)
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Going with AVR's comparison and taking a crack at the math to include crits vs AC 17 with your +5 to hit:
mwk Fauchard 1d10 18-20x2: (9/20)*(5.5+3)+(3/20)*(9/20)*(5.5+3)*2 = 4.9725
mwk Longspear + str belt 1d8 20x3: (10/20)*(4.5+4)+(1/20)*(10/20)*(4.5+4)*3 = 4.8875
So, making the wild assumption that my calculations are right, the Masterwork Fauchard gives a 1.74% damage increase over the masterwork longspear and belt of strength +2 but you are 28.5% more vulnerable to dex drain.... tread with care!
Sorry Validorn, they're not. A *2 crit adds the base damage again once; the original hit does the base damage already. A*3 crit adds twice the base damage for the same reason.
Edit: 4.39875 for the fauchard, 4.4625 for the spear + belt by my calc.
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Sorry Validorn, they're not. A *2 crit adds the base damage again once; the original hit does the base damage already. A*3 crit adds twice the base damage for the same reason.
Edit: 4.39875 for the fauchard, 4.4625 for the spear + belt by my calc.
A critical hit means that you roll your damage more than once, with all your usual bonuses, and add the rolls together. Unless otherwise specified, the threat range for a critical hit on an attack roll is 20, and the multiplier is ×2.
Sorry avr, I'm not quite following. If a critical strike is confirmed on a x2 weapon, the weapon damage plus (non-precision) modifiers apply twice. For a x3 weapon it is 3 times and so on. At least that is my understanding of the above. Please keep in mind I am not dropping out the initial weapon damage as you did. I am calculating the full expected value on one attack.
Sorry Validorn, they're not. A *2 crit adds the base damage again once; the original hit does the base damage already. A*3 crit adds twice the base damage for the same reason.
Edit: 4.39875 for the fauchard, 4.4625 for the spear + belt by my calc.
A critical hit means that you roll your damage more than once, with all your usual bonuses, and add the rolls together. Unless otherwise specified, the threat range for a critical hit on an attack roll is 20, and the multiplier is ×2.Sorry avr, I'm not quite following. If a critical strike is confirmed on a x2 weapon, the weapon damage plus (non-precision) modifiers apply twice. For a x3 weapon it is 3 times and so on. At least that is my understanding of the above. Please keep in mind I am not dropping out the initial weapon damage as you did. I am calculating the full expected value on one attack.
A critical hit on a *2 weapon does the weapon damage twice INSTEAD of just once, not twice IN ADDITION.
So the damage on a crit with a *2 1d6 weapon with no other bonuses would be 1d6 + 1d6, or 2-12. Your math seems to be indicating you think it would be 3d6.
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A critical hit on a *2 weapon does the weapon damage twice INSTEAD of just once, not twice IN ADDITION.
So the damage on a crit with a *2 1d6 weapon with no other bonuses would be 1d6 + 1d6, or 2-12. Your math seems to be indicating you think it would be 3d6.
I guess I'm not following where people are getting the impression that I'm converting a x2 weapon into x3. I am in full agreement that 1d6 x2 goes to 2d6 or 2-12 on a crit or, extending further, a 1d6 + 4 x2 would go to 2d6 + 8 or 2-12 + 8 or 10-20. Am I mistaken there?
... upon looking at the original formulas I think I'm seeing the error. I believe people are mistaking my second term as an addition to the base damage which is not the case. However, I believe I am mishandling the probability of hitting and critical threat but not confirming. Edit incoming. :)
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Going with AVR's comparison and taking a crack at the math to include crits vs AC 17 with your +5 to hit:
mwk Fauchard 1d10 18-20x2: (9/20)*(5.5+3)+(3/20)*(9/20)*(5.5+3)*2 = 4.9725
mwk Longspear + str belt 1d8 20x3: (10/20)*(4.5+4)+(1/20)*(10/20)*(4.5+4)*3 = 4.8875
Since I can no longer edit the original post and correcting for maths, how about:
mwk Fauchard 1d10 18-20x2: (6/20)*(5.5+3)+(3/20)*(11/20)*(5.5+3)+(3/20)*(9/20)*(5.5+3)*2 = 4.39875
mwk Longspear + str belt 1d8 20x3: (9/20)*(4.5+4)+(1/20)*(10/20)*(4.5+4)+(1/20)*(10/20)*(4.5+4)*3 = 4.675
So, in conclusion of the revised formulas. Don't trust my work. ;)
Given my earlier concern about dex drain and (eventual!) agreement that longspear performs better currently... yeah, fauchard not worth it right now.
Okay, so at low levels the long spear pulls ahead. What happens at higher levels when the fauchard becomes keen?
What would be the appropriate comparison on the spear +2? Keen? I apparently need more practice. :-D
p.s.- Despite the confusion on why I was wrong, I appreciate folks pointing out that I was mistaken.
p.p.s.- avr, not sure why we still don't match on the longspear :-/
Your last version is right Validorn, not mine. A typo in the spreadsheet I was using as a calculator.
It's a really small difference Hmm. Going from a spear to a fauchard is probably the next most efficient DPR increase after getting a belt of strength. A fauchard can use the same belt as the spear after all, they're not mutually exclusive. One day though you're going to want to learn righteous might; 3 dex?!?
3 dex?!?
With a better initiative modifier than her Paladin of Shelyn.
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Okay, now I'm confused. Should I go for the fauchard or not? I know that you have to make tradeoffs in magic items. I don't want to switch out magic weapons. I want to keep enchanting the same one to keep my cash efficient. So do I save up the extra 3k for a fauchard that I will eventually make keen, or do I just give up and stay with the spear?
I'm looking for both short and long term outlook here.
Hmm
Okay, now I'm confused. Should I go for the fauchard or not? I know that you have to make tradeoffs in magic items. I don't want to switch out magic weapons. I want to keep enchanting the same one to keep my cash efficient. So do I save up the extra 3k for a fauchard that I will eventually make keen, or do I just give up and stay with the spear?
I'm looking for both short and long term outlook here.
Hmm
Seems like the calculations are close enough to do what you WANT to for the character.
It looks like the two give very close to the same average damage. The fauchard would have a higher standard deviation -- a wider curve if plotted for minimum and maximum.
Pick a couple of levels to look at, we can do the math.
Ph = Probability to hit
Pc = Probability to critical.
D = average damage that would be affected by critical.
So
DPR = Ph * D + Pc * Ph * D for x2 weapon
= Ph * D + Pc * Ph * 2 * D for x3 weapon
= Ph * D + Pc * Ph * 3 * D for x4 weapon
Note that your probability to hit and crit will change depending on weapon and other factors.
If you're going for maximum efficiency, first buy a belt of strength, then buy the ioun stone and a masterwork fauchard, then buy or upgrade that fauchard to a magic one. If you feel that due to DR issues you need to get a magic weapon immediately after getting the belt then yeah, that derails that plan a bit and maybe you forget about the fauchard entirely and stick with the spear.
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If you're going for maximum efficiency, first buy a belt of strength, then buy the ioun stone and a masterwork fauchard, then buy or upgrade that fauchard to a magic one. If you feel that due to DR issues you need to get a magic weapon immediately after getting the belt then yeah, that derails that plan a bit and maybe you forget about the fauchard entirely and stick with the spear.
Remember that, if all you want is for the weapon to be magical, sometimes, then using oils of magic weapon, or even casting it, will let you delay making it actually magical for a while.