It's not so much that the items themselves, suck. Many wondorous items have really neat sounding, flavorful abilities. The problem seems that price and the DC are way out of balance. What really made me want to make a thread about this is The Rod of Thunder And Lightning. In our current Skulls & Shackles campaign, I am playing a Storm Druid / Master of Storms. This rod seems a really good fit for my character, helping him call down the fury of lightning and thunder...but after saving up for so long to afford one, I find the DC 16 saves are easily passed by pretty much every enemy we face, leaving me dealing a meager amount of damage. The same is true for many other items I'm looking at, most of which don't have save DCs higher than 17. Anyone else notice this? How do you deal with it in your game?
I don't normally use magic items for attacks with save DCs. Most of the time it's buff items, but fun ones not the "Big 6"
I don't normally use magic items for attacks with save DCs. Most of the time it's buff items, but fun ones not the "Big 6"
I know most players go this route, but after 15 yearsmof D&D, I'd really like to explore magic items outside of the typical static bonus to a stat.
The only magic items that have dynamic DC values are staves, which let you cast their spells using your own DC, rather than the minimal level of the item. That's a big deal - and really the only advantage to having a staff, now that they only hold ten charges. Being able to recharge them is kinda cool, but so much depends on the pace of your adventures.
Aside from that, the coolest items are utility powers - flying, haste, and various odds and ends, rather than raw attack power. I bet your druid can lay down far more hurt than that measly rod. But if you'd found one in a loot haul several levels before, it would've been much more cool, eh?
Yeah, he can, but who wants to spend every fight casting the same 2-3 spells? I will gladly give up overrall damage to be able to lift my rod in the air, and bring down a bolt of intertwined electric and sonic damage that deafens everyone and lets them know Master of Storms is in the MFing house.But when even the bosses hunchbacked minion is making the save and only getting scratched, kinda kills the drama.
Anyone know if there are alternative rules to magic items low DCs?
Most items that I see with DCs that scale usually involve the level of the spell and the user's Charisma modifier; this is taken from old 3.X books that involve items with a sort of scaling DC, primarily from the Weapons of Legacy book, where options that include damaging spells are present.
Unfortunately, I doubt you're going to find any equivalent in Pathfinder. The best I could potentially come up with is an Intelligent item that casts the spells within the item, using his own mental statistics to fuel the DC, and even that is a stretch.
Long story short: Convert it into a staff, if you're looking to improve Save DCs.
As an aside to GM Rednal's #2, increasing Caster Level only affects subjects which are increased by CL. Save DCs are increased by Spell Level and Caster Modifier. These are separate from Caster Level, and the rule is that items which involve a DC through a spell rely on the minimum amount of casting statistic to determine its DC. So a 1st level spell only requires 11 Intelligence, so it would be a DC 11, whereas a 2nd level spell requires a 12 Intelligence, so it would be a DC 13.
Let's take a Wand of Fireball as an example. You have a base CL of 5, which means it deals 5D6, and it has a save DC of 14 (10 base + 3 spell level + 1 modifier minimum). Now, let's say we wanted to double that CL. Now, the wand deals 10D6, but it still has the same save DC of 14, because the CL is not factored into the save DC (though the fireball's damage is mathematically doubled in power). The wand also costs twice as much to make, too.
I'm going to check out the Unchained section, and the Weapons of Legacy, and see if my DM will use it for the basis of homebrew rules. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. Will continue to monitor thread if anyone else has pointers.
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I don't normally use magic items for attacks with save DCs. Most of the time it's buff items, but fun ones not the "Big 6"I know most players go this route, but after 15 yearsmof D&D, I'd really like to explore magic items outside of the typical static bonus to a stat.
Yup. One of my biggest pet peeves.
I'm actually going to implement the Automatic Bonus Progression from Unchained, except without Armor/Weapon Attunement (and legendary gifts). Since the game assumes you have these "big 6" items, you may as well just give them to everyone.
Some considerations I took in while going over this idea:
1. The Armor/Weapon Attunement didn't feel right, so I left it out. It's rather odd is "consumes" your enhancement bonuses to charge the special weapon abilities. Also, it doesn't help the idea of carrying a few extra magic weapons around for those "just in case" moments, as you can only Attune 1 or 2 weapons at a time.
2. Likewise, I left out the legendary gifts. Literally half of them dealt with your armor/shield/weapons. The rest are just ability score enhancements.
3. Seeing as some characters can go their entire career without actually wielding a weapon (or a suit of armor), giving them free Armor/Weapon Attunements didn't seem fair. Much like a tax on their WBL, since the default system cuts WBL in half.
4. In order for these Automatic Bonuses to feel more natural and "automatic," I've removed their types of bonuses they give to the characters so as to allow certain things to stack.
4a. The Deflection/Toughening bonuses are essentially just "AC Bonus." The only difference between the two is if they will add to Touch/FlatFooted or not. This will let some class abilities to remain relevant and useful throughout the character's journey. (I.e. the Protection Domain's Aura of Protection ability). Similar regards to "Resistance" bonus, and spells/abilities that grant Resistance bonus to saving throws. (Holy Aura, Magic Circle, etc)
4b. Ability boosting items are gone. However, since the physical/mental prowess abilities are just "bonuses," they stack with spell such as Cat's Grace/Eagle's Splendor/Bull's Strength and such.
This leaves the rest of the players' wealth to consider and play with other neat and nifty Magic Items that they would rather avoid, just to save that "slot" for something the game requires of them.
One upgrade for a Rod of Thunder and Lightning came from the visual description(azure staff topped with an ornate carving of a blue dragon head) was using Rod of the Python as a base, but having the rod turn into a medium/large Blue Dragon instead.
Some magic items/abilities are clearly outdated (or never were up to par in the first place), some are really good, so it's just a case of knowing what works and what doesn't.
That's one of the biggest aspects of Legend of the Five Rings that I liked: no need to dig through giant lists of mostly-useless items to find the few gems.
Hit your gm up to offer alternate feats similar to Staff-like-wand. It shouldn't unbalance the game too hard at the cost of a feat.