Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East
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I want to make sure I calculated the cost for this correctly. Last night we ran Sniper in the Deep, high tier, with 3 players + pregen Kyra. The Specter fight did not go well. The dice chose Kyra to drop quickly, and while trying to bug out one of the PC's dropped.
He was level 8. 8 negative levels later, he drops and becomes a spectre. Some after-scenario artillery shots from Absalom harbor later, it dies. How much does it cost to be raised?
Raise Dead won't work, so Resurrection is needed. 10910 gp. That adds another negative level though, and doesn't clear the others.
Clearing 9 permanent negative levels: 1280 X 9 = 11520 gp. So, a total of 22430 gp. Is that the correct procedure?
The other players were quite generous in donating their total earnings from this scenario to help with the resurrection.
Gripes about scenario: Larro is listed in his stat block as having a +4 greatsword, but in his loot and on the chronicle as a +2 greatsword.
Also, the loot values for the top-deck mooks and the captain's treasure chest aren't separated from the rest of the ship. Since the scenario was called after those but before completion, I ruled them as being 1000 gp together (+the bar fight). Does that sound about right?
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I'm not sure about the scenario specifics but:
Negative levels remain until 24 hours have passed or until they are removed with a spell, such as restoration. If a negative level is not removed before 24 hours have passed, the affected creature must attempt a Fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 draining creature's racial HD + draining creature's Cha modifier; the exact DC is given in the creature's descriptive text). On a success, the negative level goes away with no harm to the creature. On a failure, the negative level becomes permanent. A separate saving throw is required for each negative level.
So first did the PC fail each save against negative levels? It is very possible because of the stacking save penalties.
Your math is correct for the total cost. Keep in mind if they don't have all the money right now permanent negative levels don't have to be removed before the end of the session.
Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden
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It's a bit of a puzzle. True Resurrection says it cures all negative levels; ordinary Resurrection doesn't say so.
However, if you keep all those negative levels, you would immediately die again. But Resurrection does state explicitly that it works to restore people turned into undead, and level drain is one of the most common ways for that to happen . The spell doesn't explain what would happen then.
We know implicitly that dead people can still have negative levels. Whether they have to make saves against temporary levels becoming permanent is uncertain; as (for the time being) Objects, they'd be immune to that. Does that mean temporary negative levels on dead PCs go away after 24 hours, or just linger in their temporary state because dead people neither make nor fail the check while waiting to be rezzed?
Another thing to consider: while undead, the ex-PC was immune to negative levels. So he might shed any negative levels accrued.
We're clearly in the land of "the rules don't quite cover this, so make a fair GM call".
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Is the penalty of having to buy a resurrection insufficient?
GM Fiat: Until I'm informed otherwise, the resurrection restores you to life with [exactly] 1 negative level if this happens at my table.
Also, it's not helpful to have the spoiler warning in the title, right next to the biggest spoiler, clearly visible.
Venture-Lieutenant, Massachusetts—North Shore
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I would say that since they were temporary negative levels they are dispersed upon death. My understanding is that every other temporary condition that affects a creature ends on death so why not these. The spawn ability kicks in as a consequence of the negative levels but is not dependent on their presence.
They would still need someone to cast resurrection on them just because they became an undead so raise dead wont be enough.
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Resurrection requires a portion of the remains. Spectres are incorporeal. An incorporeal creature has no physical body. I call that True Resurrection land.
I think that when you turn into an incorporeal undead your soul leaves the body and becomes the undead, which means that you still have a body to resurrect. You would still need to kill the spectral you of course.
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However, if you keep all those negative levels, you would immediately die again.
We're clearly in the land of "the rules don't quite cover this, so make a fair GM call".
Permanent negative levels remain after a dead creature is restored to life. A creature whose permanent negative levels equal its Hit Dice cannot be brought back to life through spells like raise dead and resurrection without also receiving a restoration spell, cast the round after it is restored to life.
I suppose this character is actually in a bit of trouble though because you can't get a Greater Restoration I believe. This means even with a normal restoration it can only at best cancel out the permanent negative level from the resurrection. This leads me to believe he will need a True Resurrection now.
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However, if you keep all those negative levels, you would immediately die again.
We're clearly in the land of "the rules don't quite cover this, so make a fair GM call".
Permanent negative levels remain after a dead creature is restored to life. A creature whose permanent negative levels equal its Hit Dice cannot be brought back to life through spells like raise dead and resurrection without also receiving a restoration spell, cast the round after it is restored to life.
I suppose this character is actually in a bit of trouble though because you can't get a Greater Restoration I believe. This means even with a normal restoration it can only at best cancel out the permanent negative level from the resurrection. This leads me to believe he will need a True Resurrection now.
Casting time for Restoration is 3 rounds... so how is this cast "...the round after it is restored to life..."?
Just wondering...
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Permanent negative levels remain after a dead creature is restored to life. A creature whose permanent negative levels equal its Hit Dice cannot be brought back to life through spells like raise dead and resurrection without also receiving a restoration spell, cast the round after it is restored to life.
Casting time for Restoration is 3 rounds... so how is this cast "...the round after it is restored to life..."?
Just wondering...
Multiple casters. One starts restoration 12 seconds before the other finishes resurrection.
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I want to make sure I calculated the cost for this correctly. Last night we ran Sniper in the Deep, high tier, with 3 players + pregen Kyra. The Specter fight did not go well. The dice chose Kyra to drop quickly, and while trying to bug out one of the PC's dropped.
He was level 8. 8 negative levels later, he drops and becomes a spectre. Some after-scenario artillery shots from Absalom harbor later, it dies. How much does it cost to be raised?
Raise Dead won't work, so Resurrection is needed. 10910 gp. That adds another negative level though, and doesn't clear the others.
Clearing 9 permanent negative levels: 1280 X 9 = 11520 gp. So, a total of 22430 gp. Is that the correct procedure?
The other players were quite generous in donating their total earnings from this scenario to help with the resurrection.
Gripes about scenario: Larro is listed in his stat block as having a +4 greatsword, but in his loot and on the chronicle as a +2 greatsword.
Also, the loot values for the top-deck mooks and the captain's treasure chest aren't separated from the rest of the ship. Since the scenario was called after those but before completion, I ruled them as being 1000 gp together (+the bar fight). Does that sound about right?
[uquote=Energy Drain (Su)]This attack saps a living opponent's vital energy and happens automatically when a melee or ranged attack hits. Each successful energy drain bestows one or more negative levels (the creature's description specifies how many). If an attack that includes an energy drain scores a critical hit, it bestows twice the listed number of negative levels. Unless otherwise specified in the creature's description, a draining creature gains 5 temporary hit points for each negative level it bestows on an opponent. These temporary hit points last for a maximum of 1 hour. Negative levels remain until 24 hours have passed or until they are removed with a spell, such as restoration. If a negative level is not removed before 24 hours have passed, the affected creature must attempt a Fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 draining creature's racial HD + draining creature's Cha modifier; the exact DC is given in the creature's descriptive text). On a success, the negative level goes away with no harm to the creature. On a failure, the negative level becomes permanent. A separate saving throw is required for each negative level.
Format: energy drain (2 levels, DC 18); Location: Special Attacks and individual attacks.
One error: Unless the PC failed the saves (8 of them!) 24 hours later, they are not yet permanent negative levels, so, worse case:
So, Resurrection: 10,000 in diamond dust, + SL7 * CL13 * 10gp = 910, so 10,910 for the Resurrection, yes.
Restoration for 8 temporary negative levels: 100 gp diamond sust + SL4 * CL7 * 10 gp = 280, so 380 per Restoration, so 3,040 gp for all 8 temporary negative levels, plus the 1,280 for the permanent negative level from Resurrection, so 15,230 gp total, max within the first 24 hours.
And in this case, the PC will need two of the Restorations cast within one round of the Resurrection to bring his negative levels to a total of 7, and not kill him again. So, cost in this case, assuming that one of the Restorations is for the permanent negative level given by Resurrection:
10,910 + 1,280 + 380 = 12,570 gp
Whether they want to spend 380 gp each for the last 7 temp neg levels, or risk the Fort saves, and a potential price of 1,280 for each failed save, should be up to the PC/player.
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Personally, I think the language about negative levels persisting only applies to "normal" negative levels, i.e. those that just result directly or indirectly in the character's death. So if you died because of enervation or a combination of negative level effects and other damage, those levels would persist and need to be resolved immediately upon a death-curative.
However, IMO the negative levels you get from an undead with the spawn ability do not persist if they cause you to actually spawn. A spectre is not an undead creature with X number of negative levels. It is just an undead. When you died and were "reborn" as an undead you do not maintain negative levels. Undead traits specifically state they are not subject to energy drain. I would rule that yes, you need a resurrection because the PC did unfortunately become an undead so raise dead no longer works. When revived, the resurrection spell does impart a permanent negative level which needs to be resolved, but that's it. YMMV
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And in this case, the PC will need two of the Restorations cast within one round of the Resurrection to bring his negative levels to a total of 7, and not kill him again.
This spell cannot be used to dispel more than one permanent negative level possessed by a target in a 1-week period.
Without access to greater restoration a true res is needed for sure.
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Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East
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Sorry for the thread title. I was seeing this as an issue that happened to involve a scenario from 6 years ago, not as a thread specifically on the scenario. In any case, they're aren't really spoiling much.
That's great on the greater restoration, will cut the cost down a ways. Unless the consensus is that True Resurrection is needed, in which case I think the character might be done for.
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Sorry for the thread title. I was seeing this as an issue that happened to involve a scenario from 6 years ago, not as a thread specifically on the scenario. In any case, they're aren't really spoiling much.
That's great on the greater restoration, will cut the cost down a ways. Unless the consensus is that True Resurrection is needed, in which case I think the character might be done for.
I'd strongly disagree with a True Resurrection being needed, as long as they have the body. Yes, it became an incorporeal specter, which was then (I presume) destroyed, but you aren't trying to raise the specter. The spawning process doesn't say anything about destroying the body, so it will still be around to be raised.
They need a resurrection and a basically simultaneous greater restoration. Depending on your reading of how the temporary negative levels from a specter work, you might be able to get away with a standard restoration, but greater would be the better choice.
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And in this case, the PC will need two of the Restorations cast within one round of the Resurrection to bring his negative levels to a total of 7, and not kill him again.This spell cannot be used to dispel more than one permanent negative level possessed by a target in a 1-week period.
Without access to greater restoration a true res is needed for sure.
There is only ONE permanent negative level.
Read the creature Energy Drain ability, those are not permanent until 24 hours have passed, and the target has FAILED a Fort save for EACH negative level.
Negative levels remain until 24 hours have passed or until they are removed with a spell, such as restoration. If a negative level is not removed before 24 hours have passed, the affected creature must attempt a Fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 draining creature's racial HD + draining creature's Cha modifier; the exact DC is given in the creature's descriptive text). On a success, the negative level goes away with no harm to the creature. On a failure, the negative level becomes permanent. A separate saving throw is required for each negative level.
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Yeah you told me what I said in my very first post.
The negative levels never became permanent. The creature cannot make saves while dead.
I would rule that the negatives levels do not remain when the creature is resurrected.
Permanent negative levels remain after a dead creature is restored to life.
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An argument* could be made that when you die, you become an object. It is fairly common practice, in my experience, to treat a body as an object. Generally speaking, conditions other than broken and destroyed do not affect objects. So, the negative levels would not affect said object and they would cease to exist. So, upon resurrection, the only remaining condition would be the negative level imposed by the spell, resolved relatively easily with a restoration.