Is a shield bashing paladin worth it?
or would i just be better off using my feats to make my main attack hit harder/easer
right now i made my character human so i can do all that at lvl 1
str18
dex15
con12
int8
wis7
cha15
feats TWF and improved shield bash
One possibility is to use Dual Talent Human to push dexterity up to 17 at the cost of your bonus feat, though you would probably want to back off on the min-max enough to retain 10INT. Anyhow it's a painful trade-off at first, but you do gain the benefit of +1 AC, Initiative and Reflex right away, and then eventually you have the ability to take not only Improved TWF but Two-Weapon Rend. Feats are tight, but it's just doable with Dual Enhancement in there (and Dual Enhancement is a major, major plus for a TWF Paladin).
The other option is to replace Improved Shield Bash and other possible feats like Double Slice or Shield Slam with Improved Unarmed Strike and Dragon Style, wearing a Bodywrap of Mighty Strikes if you needed more unarmed enhancement beyond what Dual Enhancement gets you. You can make your offhand 'Dragon Punch' for 1.5xSTR while using a shield (call it a punch with your shield, bashing someone with your weapon-hilt, whatever style you want), and you get some fringe benefits like a wickedly mobile charge. You could still use Dual Talent to maximize your ability scores. Based on how you were placing things, something like:
16/18STR, 15DEX, 12CON, 10INT, 7WIS, 14/16CHA
1. Two Weapon Fighting
3. Improved Unarmed Strike
5. Dual Enhancement
7. Dragon Style
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Your shield is so small, people complement you on your ring.
Your shield is so gold plated, people try to read religious text from it with a magic stone.
Your shield is so rusted, rust monsters turn it down as sloppy seconds.
Wait, did you not mean that kind of bashing?
right now i made my character human so i can do all that at lvl 1
str18
dex12
con15
int8
wis7
cha15feats Power Attack and Improved Shield Bash
FTFY.
If you plan to be using Shield Bashes (and probably nothing except that), then you don't need TWF feats. Additionally, if you did try to TWF, then you wouldn't really be able to make use of Lay on Hands.
Lastly, I don't know if you get access to 2 Character Traits to start (like you would in PFS, for example), but Shield Bearer (giving +1 Damage on Shield Bashes) and Reactionary (or Magical Knack, depending on what sort of spellcasting you plan to utilize) are probably the best choices to take if you ever receive Character Traits.
I'd say you're good to go then. There's some traits to help you out too, if you look around, but I think one you have to be a dwarf and that's not ideal for you.
Past that just focus on normal paladin stuff. Any more in this won't carry far.
one of the traits needed for a shield basher is out of Inner Sea Gods, I think the name of it is Shield Trained and it allows you to treat a heavy shield as a light weapon, I think the only downside to it is that it is a trait that belongs to Our Lord in Iron so I am not sure a Paladin could take it
I made a half-elf paladin once that combined warhammer & shield bashing with the Enforcer Feat and Bludgeoner or that Weapon of Peace trait. It was very feat intensive and required putting all Ability Score Improvements into Dexterity for Improved and Greater Two-Weapon Fighting.
Traits: Bully (?) Intimidate as class skill, Weapon of Peace? Magical Knack paladin?
1. Skill Focus Intimidate
1. Two Weapon Fighting
3. Improved Shield Bash
4. +1 Dex (16)
5. Enforcer
7. Bludgeoner
8. +1 Dex (17)
9. Improved Two Weapon Fighting
11. Shield Focus
12. +1 Dex (18)
13.
15.
16. +1 Dex (19)
17. Greater Two Weapon Fighting
19.
I forget the whole build, but he wielded a warhammer and shield, did non-lethal damage with both, and made 2 to 7 free action Intimidate checks to demoralize.
A human without Skill Focus would come online at 5th level (double demoralizing). You can rearrange feats 1, 1, 3, 5, and 7 if you want to demoralize earlier and 2-weapon fight later.
one of the traits needed for a shield basher is out of Inner Sea Gods, I think the name of it is Shield Trained and it allows you to treat a heavy shield as a light weapon
Unfortunately, as soon as a Paladin picks up a heavy shield they can't do the trick where they swap their weapon to their light shield hand to cast spells or use Lay on Hands.
Additionally, if you did try to TWF, then you wouldn't really be able to make use of Lay on Hands.
TWF does nothing to prevent using Lay on Hands, since the full attack action comes either before or after the swift action.
Additionally, if you did try to TWF, then you wouldn't really be able to make use of Lay on Hands.TWF does nothing to prevent using Lay on Hands, since the full attack action comes either before or after the swift action.
I think he means that you won't have an open hand to use Lay on Hands, since both are occupied.
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You could probably use Lay on Hands on yourself since your hand can touch itself.
Because Divinyls.
If both hands being occupied during a full attack prevented Lay on Hands, no Paladin would be able to use it unless they fought with nothing but a one-handed weapon in one hand.
one of the traits needed for a shield basher is out of Inner Sea Gods, I think the name of it is Shield Trained and it allows you to treat a heavy shield as a light weaponUnfortunately, as soon as a Paladin picks up a heavy shield they can't do the trick where they swap their weapon to their light shield hand to cast spells or use Lay on Hands.
Additionally, if you did try to TWF, then you wouldn't really be able to make use of Lay on Hands.TWF does nothing to prevent using Lay on Hands, since the full attack action comes either before or after the swift action.
The action itself? No. Holding two weapons at once with both hands? Unless you're casting "Lay on Foot," and stomping on your own toes to heal yourself, the GM is gonna look at you funny and wonder how you're going to touch yourself with your hands without stabbing yourself in the face.
One can solve the problem with using a Light Shield instead, but that runs into its own problems, such as crappy damage and a wasted trait. Also, all of that excess Dexterity is such a waste, since chances are you will be wearing Full Plate, meaning you would only need 12 Dexterity, tops. Hell, you could probably substitute Dexterity for Intelligence, since later down the road, a +6 All Physical belt will remove the need for a higher Dexterity. Even with Mithril, that will also be shored up with the (eventual) +5 Manuals.
Though I must say, not having 13 Intelligence for Unsanctioned Knowledge is quite interesting, since spells like Mirror Image, Freedom of Movement, Haste, etc. are very powerful and nifty for the Paladin to learn on his lonesome and not have to beg to their Wizard Gods for aid all the time.
The action itself? No. Holding two weapons at once with both hands? Unless you're casting "Lay on Foot," and stomping on your own toes to heal yourself, the GM is gonna look at you funny and wonder how you're going to touch yourself with your hands without stabbing yourself in the face.
One can solve the problem with using a Light Shield instead, but that runs into its own problems, such as crappy damage and a wasted trait.
Eh, are we talking about not being able to Lay on Hands because of TWF with a light shield, or something else? TWF with a light shield doesn't stop Lay on Hands any more than using a weapon in two hands does, because you use Lay on Hands as a swift action before or after you make your attacks, and you change the way you're gripping things, just like if you were swinging a greatsword. On the other hand, a heavy shield not only stops Lay on Hands - whether you fight with it or not - but spellcasting as well, so it's not typically a Paladin thing. The fact that damage drops by 1 point is the trade-off for not gimping class features.
Play a divine guardian. Enjoy the free shield feats with charisma instead of dex. Additionally, you can just two hand with a heavy shield if you don't wanna twf.
thanks for all the help i am going to save this character till i can use it starting at a higher lvl
thanks for all the info
Play a divine guardian. Enjoy the free shield feats with charisma instead of dex. Additionally, you can just two hand with a heavy shield if you don't wanna twf.
Whoa! How have I not noticed this before?
Essentially 5 bonus feats for a slightly watered-down Aura of Courage. Holy cow
Losing all spellcasting along with swift action lay on hands makes it a bad trade IMO.
Losing all spellcasting along with swift action lay on hands makes it a bad trade IMO.
Definitely. But I always appreciate a "loyal thane" that defends his lord with his life. I'm not sure why.