A buddy of mine who moved recently has found a game at a local comic store. He has played a little I have ussually helped him with the higher levels of his character. He asked for my help he needs it tomorrow, he wants something simple and fun he was told the party needed a rogue so I am guessing they need trap finding and that sort of thing.
20 point build
23k in gold
He wants to play an elf, and wants to be a strait rogue.
Please help me, I was thinking either two weapon fighter or elven curve blade.
Your problem is that your friend sounds inexperienced, and that rogues require a lot of maneuvering to do well. The combination is not a good match, frankly.
Simple and fun probably means a ranged martial or semi-martial, to minimize decision-making. Urban (archetype) ranger should fit the bill nicely. It's very functional, it's a lot more durable than standard rogues, and it can do the trapping thing while delivering much more reliable combat in the hands of a less experienced player.
He wants to play a rogue and that's what the group at the store asked him to play.
He was in our second darkness game that we stopped at 15th level so he has played some high level games.
Since I would never advice a rogue for someone who wants "simple and fun", I'm afraid you're on your own in that case. Sorry to be a downer, but even unchained rogues are pretty terrible.
At 9th level the scout archetype has just come into its own. If you go that way then you use a curveblade. Make sure you max acrobatics and get feather step slippers, and take the slow reactions rogue talent. Consider getting spell storing armor if there's someone in the party who will load it for you.
Your damage isn't amazing but it is simple and reliable. Get the Minor/Major Magic rogue talents for a little utility if your GM agrees that no verbal/somatic components means that it is at least hard for others to perceive you using them.
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Well... I won't speak for overall power, but if you want Rogue then I personally like Elven Curved Blade since you can get 1.5 dex to damage. For the record I'm not a Rogue guy, I've built one or two for fun but don't really consider myself very good at them. I think TWF has better damage overall, but I like this more for it's reliability. Also, obviously he should be Unchained.
Archetype wise I like going for Scout for more Sneak Attack.
Stats might be:
13 Str
16 Dex+2=18
16 Con-2= 14
7 Int+2=9
14 Wis
7 Cha
You could also go TWF, in that case bring str down to 10 (or however low you can get it and still not be encumbered) bump Dex/Con/Wis/Int. If they went TWF I'd go Scout/Knife Master and worship Pharasma. Drop some of the feats below and instead they grab Deific Obedience at 5th level.
Anyways, all stat bumps go into Dex.
One Item List.
Elven Curved Blade +1 -> Eventually get the Cruel property. Otherwise go straight pluses.
Mithral Shirt +2
Belt of Dex +2
Amulet of Nat Armor +1
Cloak of Resistance +2
Ring of Protection +1
Shortbow
In terms of magic item value alone (and mithral) that's 19000. Account for the mundane cost of gear and you should have a little more/less than 100 GP left over for other basic stuff. If you are really worried about traps, maybe drop 100 GP on Masterwork thieves tools, otherwise make that shortbow better (always good to have some sort of ranged option, best to eventually make it something you can at least be a mild threat with).
Other things to consider. If the party is larger with lots of dudes in melee, or summons/companions in melee than getting the 13 Intelligence for Combat Expertise for Gang Up isn't a bad deal. I don't like it so much in a standard sized party though. I'd bring Wisdom down some, if TWF then dropping strength down some helps too.
Anyways,
Race Stuff. Take alternate racial abilities to drop the more magical focused Elven abilities. They aren't doing anything for a Rogue. For Favored Class I'd go straight hit points.
Talents:
2) Weapon Training (Elven Curved Blade)
4) Trap Finder if Super Trap Heavy. Otherwise whatever. I like Slow Reactions.
6) Combat Trick (Corrungon Smash)
Others: Ki Pool+Ninja Trick (Vanishing Trick)+Master Trick (Hidden Blade)
Minor/Major Magic
Opportunist
Whatever Advanced Talent gives you two debilitating injuries at once.
Traits:
Initiative Booster
Save Boosts (Probably Will)
If intelligence is high then you could go for Bruising Intellect.
Feats:
1) Toughness/Improved Initiative/Skill Focus: Intimidate (See Below)/Iron Will
2) Weapon Focus (Rogue Talent)
3) Power Attack
5) Furious Focus
6) Corrungon Smash
7) Dazzling Display
9) Shatter Defenses
11) Twist Away
Not familiar enough with the Skill Unlocks to say much. Getting intimidate can be fun with Corrungon Smash+Dazzling Display.
Skills:
Acrobatics
Stealth
Perception
Intimidate
Disable Device
Whatever Else looks good.
That's just one way possible way of doing things.
Here is what I came up with for a quick build. The spells for minor, and major magic can be changed as needed. For the major magic either vanish or shocking grasp will probably be the best choices. The skill unlock for perception means he has a penalty of -1 for every 20 feet instead of -1 for every 10 feet. He still has 2,770 GP to spend for whatever he wants. Probably want to spend some on scrolls so he can fill out his spell book. With 10 uses of vanish he probably will not have that hard of a time pulling of sneak attacks.
Elf Rogue
Male elf rogue (unchained) 9 (Pathfinder Unchained 20)
NG Medium humanoid (elf)
Init +6; Senses low-light vision; Perception +15
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Defense
--------------------
AC 23, touch 17, flat-footed 17 (+5 armor, +1 deflection, +6 Dex, +1 natural)
hp 60 (9d8+12)
Fort +9, Ref +14, Will +9; +2 vs. enchantments
Defensive Abilities danger sense +3, evasion, improved uncanny dodge; Immune sleep
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft.
Melee +1 elven curve blade +13/+8 (1d10+10/18-20)
Special Attacks sneak attack (unchained) +5d6
Rogue (Unchained) Spell-Like Abilities (CL 9th; concentration +8)
At will—minor magic
10/day—major magic
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Statistics
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Str 13, Dex 22, Con 12, Int 14, Wis 12, Cha 8
Base Atk +6.75; CMB +7 (+11 steal); CMD 24 (26 vs. steal)
Feats Bookish Rogue[ACG], Exotic Weapon Proficiency (elven curve blade), Great Fortitude, Greater Steal, Improved Steal, Iron Will, Weapon Finesse
Traits forlorn, indomitable faith
Skills Acrobatics +15, Appraise +11, Bluff +5, Climb +7, Diplomacy +5, Disable Device +20, Disguise +5, Escape Artist +12, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +8, Knowledge (local) +8, Linguistics +8, Perception +15, Sense Motive +10, Sleight of Hand +18, Stealth +23, Swim +7, Use Magic Device +11; Racial Modifiers +2 Perception, +2 Spellcraft to identify magic item properties
Languages Common, Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Gnome, Orc, Sylvan
SQ debilitating injury: bewildered, debilitating injury: disoriented, debilitating injury: hampered, elven magic, rogue talents (combat swipe, major magic, minor magic, trap spotter), trapfinding +4
Other Gear +1 shadow mithral chain shirt, +1 elven curve blade, amulet of natural armor +1, belt of incredible dexterity +2, cloak of resistance +2, ring of protection +1, 2,770 gp
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Special Abilities
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Bookish Rogue By studying a spellbook for 10 min, you can change your minor magic spell.
Danger Sense +3 (Ex) +3 bonus on reflex saves and AC against traps.
Debilitating Injury: Bewildered -2/-4 (Ex) Foe who takes sneak attack damage takes AC pen (more vs. striker) for 1 rd.
Debilitating Injury: Disoriented -2/-4 (Ex) Foe who takes sneak attack damage takes attack pen (more vs. striker) for 1 rd.
Debilitating Injury: Hampered (Ex) Foe who takes sneak attack damage has speed halved (and can't 5 ft step) for 1 rd.
Elven Immunities - Sleep You are immune to magic sleep effects.
Elven Magic +2 to spellcraft checks to determine the properties of a magic item.
Evasion (Ex) If you succeed at a Reflex save for half damage, you take none instead.
Greater Steal Foe doesn't realize you've stolen from him until after combat.
Improved Steal You don't provoke attacks of opportunity when stealing.
Improved Uncanny Dodge (Lv >=13) (Ex) Retain DEX bonus to AC when flat-footed. You cannot be flanked unless the attacker is Level 13+.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in low light, distinguishing color and detail.
Major Magic (Vanish, 10/day) (Sp) Gain the chosen 1st-level spell as a spell-like ability.
Minor Magic (Detect Magic, At will) (Sp) Gain the chosen cantrip as a spell-like ability.
Sneak Attack (Unchained) +5d6 Attacks deal extra dam if flank foe or if foe is flat-footed.
Trap Spotter (Ex) Whenever you come within 10' of a trap, the GM secretly rolls for you to find it.
Trapfinding +4 Gain a bonus to find or disable traps, including magical ones.
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I recently started playing an unchained rogue at level 8 after my mystic theurge was killed at the end of the third Runelords-Book. I'm playing a high mobility, dual-dagger halfling with half-decent survivability.
Rogue (Scout archetype)
Fleet of foot alternate racial trait for 30 ft movement.
Str 8, Dex 18 (all increases go here), Con 14, Int 14, Wis 12, Cha 10
Feats/Talents:
1 TWF
2 Weapon Focus Dagger [Weapon Training]
3 Dodge
4 Mobility [Combat Trick]
5 Underfoot
6 [Minor Magic: Acid Splash]
7 Spring Attack
8 [Major Magic: Shield]
9 Improved TWF
The idea is basically using Spring Attack with skirmisher for a free sneak attack at the start of combat to go into flanking position so you can (hopefully) sneak full attack in subsequent rounds. If you must move past multiple opponents, use Spring attack against one and acrobatics against the rest. Underfoot gives you a +4 to acrobatic vs AoOs against all enemies that are bigger than you and will grant additional AC against AoOs whenever you fail the acrobatics check.
Equipment: Two +1 daggers (about 4600 gold), Mithral chain Shirt +2 (5100), Ring of Protection +1 (2000), Amulet of Natural Armor +1 (2000), Belt of Incredible Dexterity +2 (4000), Claok of Protection +2 (4000). Leaves about 1300 gold for other equipment. Maybe try to squeeze in Daredevil Boots (1400).
With high dex, dodge, the mithral chain shirt and being small you'll have a decent AC of 26 which can be boosted to 30 with Shield. Your saves are bad (as always for a rogue) but Halfling Luck helps slighly. The +1 attack from being small also helps with landing that first important attack to apply an AC-Debuff via Delibitating Injury.
Overall a more defensive build than the Curved Blade users. Great Mobility, weaker on single attacks but (at least) equally good on full attacks (with sneak). Decent survivability and a good AC boost on demand.
If you go Scout with Elven Curve Blade, snag Vital Strike. Might as well take full advantage of that single attack. Point-blank Shot and Precise Shot as well. Scouts are great melee AND ranged attackers. And Vital Strike works with both. You're Major Magic Talent could be Gravity Bow to make a Longbow's weapon damage 2d6. Vital Striking a Sneak Attack would roll 9d6 with a Longbow, or 2d10+Dex +5d6 with an ECB - before any modifiers from magic items. Sounds easy and fun to me =)
Vital Strike is not rally worth a feat slot on a rogue.
The best way to combine scout with elven curved blade is using either the charge action or spring attack. Neither can be used with Vital Strike.
It's a nice idea with the gravity (long) bow, but 9d6 per round isn't that much when you could be full attacking for 4 times 6d6+DEX with TWF. Even with a ECB your damage will easily be at least equal to 9d6 on a charge and possibly much higher in the following rounds if you can get full sneak attacks.
@Purple Dragon Knight: A rogue can't get Exotic Proficiency at level 1 because he lacks the required +BAB +1. You'd need to either dip fighter (or another full BAB class) or be a half-elf for ancestral arms.
I'm suprised noone has mentioned this feat yet: Circling mongoose
It doesn't help that it requires 4 feats (5 with Canny Tumble) and needs to wait till you can take a feat while having +6 BAB (level 9, or level 8 using a talent or retraining). Needing to eat up your 3rd, 5th, 7th and 9th level feats to get this trick is a pretty heavy expense. The payoff is pretty good, but it's so costly that most rogues aren't going to be willing to pay the price of all but one of their feats for a non-human.
If you go Scout with Elven Curve Blade, snag Vital Strike. Might as well take full advantage of that single attack. Point-blank Shot and Precise Shot as well. Scouts are great melee AND ranged attackers. And Vital Strike works with both. You're Major Magic Talent could be Gravity Bow to make a Longbow's weapon damage 2d6. Vital Striking a Sneak Attack would roll 9d6 with a Longbow, or 2d10+Dex +5d6 with an ECB - before any modifiers from magic items. Sounds easy and fun to me =)
Vital Strike with a bow gets you about 32 damage plus static modifiers (pretty low damage by the time you can vital strike), and Vital Strike can't be used with a charge (which is how scouts usually plan to get sneak attack).
Oh, I totally got you. I'm currently playing a 10th level unchained rogue (scout archetype) who is a two-weapon fighter and combat focused. He's a lot of fun to play and can stand toe to toe with the fighters in melee.
Vital Strike is not rally worth a feat slot on a rogue.
The best way to combine scout with elven curved blade is using either the charge action or spring attack. Neither can be used with Vital Strike.
It's a nice idea with the gravity (long) bow, but 9d6 per round isn't that much when you could be full attacking for 4 times 6d6+DEX with TWF. Even with a ECB your damage will easily be at least equal to 9d6 on a charge and possibly much higher in the following rounds if you can get full sneak attacks.
@Purple Dragon Knight: A rogue can't get Exotic Proficiency at level 1 because he lacks the required +BAB +1. You'd need to either dip fighter (or another full BAB class) or be a half-elf for ancestral arms.
Full attacking is fine, and TWF is good with a Rogue also. Go for those when you get the chance, and Vital Strike when you can't. Vital Strike's best attribute is that you don't need to build anything around it. If your build already requires you to move before striking, there's even less reason to not take it. Vital Striking isn't something you should aim to do EVERY round, but neither is full attacking. With a 3/4 BAB, you're unlikely to hit with any of your iteratives anyway.
Snowblind: By 9th level, a Scout can make its target flat-footed just by moving 10'.
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Elven Curved Blade is a solid build - especially for an elf who doesn't need to burn a feat for it. Also - PA is pretty terrible for rogues since they already have accuracy issues - and U-rogues don't need STR at all.
One big advantage of Elven Curved Blade is that it saves feats - so you have the feats to burn on a longer chain such as the feinting tree. Plus, since you get most of your offense from a single attack, you aren't giving up much by using up your move action.
Try -
Str: 8
Dex: 21 (23)
Con: 12
Int: 14
Wis: 12
Cha: 10
1st: Weapon Focus
3rd: Combat Expertise
5th: Improved Bluff
7th: Blind-Fight
9th: Greater Feint
(Consider eventually aiming for Moonlight Stalker Feint to combo with Blur or smoke pellets - if not your schtick change Blind-Fight to Iron Will)
Talents: Minor/Major Magic / Trap Spotter / any
Gear: (he's at 1/2 wealth by level) +1 Curved Blade / +2 dex belt / +2 mithril breastplate / +1 ring / +1 AoNA / +2 cloak of resis
Maybe it's because I'm using a feat starved TWF build for my rogue but I just can't see Vital Strike fitting anywhere in a rogue build. It's more useful with a ECB than with my d3 daggers, of course, but I still don't think it's worth a feat. Also, I don't know why you wouldn aim to full attack every round. You won't be able to do it, but you should totally aim for it.
And unchained rogues are pretty good at hitting with their iterative attacks thanks to debilitating injury.
One thing everyone is forgetting is that Elven Curve Blade is a martial weapon to elves so a rogue has to spend feat to get it. My build included this but most of the ones I have seen do not. Even with the feat it is still a good option for a unchained rogue.
The unchained rogue talents now have some useful talents so trading them out for combat feats is not necessary. Minor and major magic now allow multiple casting per day. With Bookish rogue you can change the spells you know. You can also now pick up greater steal without any prerequisites.
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This is my PFS Unchained Rogue at 9th level
Male half-elf rogue (unchained, swashbuckler) 9 (Pathfinder RPG Advanced Player's Guide 135, Pathfinder Unchained 20)
CN Medium humanoid (elf, human)
Init +10; Senses low-light vision; Perception +19
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Defense
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AC 31, touch 18, flat-footed 24 (+7 armor, +1 deflection, +6 Dex, +1 dodge, +2 natural, +4 shield spell)
hp 69 (9d8+21)
Fort +8, Ref +17, Will +7; +2 resistance bonus vs. disease, +2 vs. enchantments, +3 morale bonus vs. fear
Defensive Abilities evasion, improved uncanny dodge; Immune sleep; Resist daring
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft.
Melee +1 adamantine gladius +13/+8 (1d6+9/19-20) or
. . +1 gladius +13/+8 (1d6+5/19-20) or
. . dagger +14/+9 (1d4/19-20)
Ranged hand crossbow +14 (1d4/19-20)
Special Attacks sneak attack (unchained) +5d6
Rogue (Unchained) Spell-Like Abilities (CL 9th; concentration +7)
. . At will—minor magic
. . 4/day—major magic
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Statistics
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Str 10, Dex 26, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 10, Cha 7
Base Atk +6; CMB +6; CMD 26
Feats Canny Tumble[ACG], Circling Mongoose, Dodge, Improved Two-weapon Fighting, Mobility, Skill Focus (Acrobatics), Spring Attack, Two-weapon Fighting, Weapon Finesse
Traits indomitable faith, reactionary
Skills Acrobatics +31, Appraise +5, Bluff +10, Climb +7, Diplomacy +2, Disable Device +22, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +13, Knowledge (local) +13, Perception +19, Sense Motive +4, Sleight of Hand +20 (+22 to conceal the ring in a search), Stealth +20, Survival +0 (+2 to avoid becoming lost), Swim +5; Racial Modifiers +2 Perception
Languages Common, Elven, Varisian
SQ debilitating injury: bewildered, debilitating injury: disoriented, debilitating injury: hampered, elf blood, rogue talents (combat trick, combat trick, fast stealth, major magic, minor magic)
Combat Gear potion of darkvision, potion of fly, potion of spider climb, potion of touch of the sea, wand of cure light wounds, caltrops; Other Gear +3 mithral shirt, +1 adamantine gladius[UC], +1 gladius[UC], crossbow bolts (30), dagger, hand crossbow, amulet of natural armor +2, belt of incredible dexterity +4, cloak of resistance +3, eyes of the eagle, ring of unquenchable passions, wayfinder[ISWG], backpack, bedroll, belt pouch, chalk (10), cold weather outfit, flint and steel, grappling hook, masterwork thieves' tools, mirror, piton (10), soap, spiritbane spike, thieves' ring, torch (5), trail rations (5), waterskin, 832 gp, 7 sp, 8 cp
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Special Abilities
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Canny Tumble +2 circ bon on melee atk vs. opp whose space you moved through without provoking AoO.
Circling Mongoose Move 5 ft. with each attack vs. a single adjacent foe as a full-attack action.
Cold weather outfit +5 Fort save vs. cold weather.
Daring +3 (Ex) +3 save vs. fear.
Debilitating Injury: Bewildered -2/-4 (Ex) Foe who takes sneak attack damage takes AC pen (more vs. striker) for 1 rd.
Debilitating Injury: Disoriented -2/-4 (Ex) Foe who takes sneak attack damage takes attack pen (more vs. striker) for 1 rd.
Debilitating Injury: Hampered (Ex) Foe who takes sneak attack damage has speed halved (and can't 5 ft step) for 1 rd.
Elf Blood Half-elves count as both elves and humans for any effect related to race.
Elven Immunities - Sleep You are immune to magic sleep effects.
Evasion (Ex) If you succeed at a Reflex save for half damage, you take none instead.
Fast Stealth (Ex) Move at full speed while using the Stealth skill at no penalty.
Improved Uncanny Dodge (Lv >=13) (Ex) Retain DEX bonus to AC when flat-footed. You cannot be flanked unless the attacker is Level 13+.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in low light, distinguishing color and detail.
Major Magic (Shield, 4/day) (Sp) Gain the chosen 1st-level spell as a spell-like ability.
Minor Magic (Detect Magic, At will) (Sp) Gain the chosen cantrip as a spell-like ability.
Mobility +4 to AC vs. AoO provoked by moving out of or through a threatened area.
Ring of unquenchable passions +2 resistance bonus on saving throws against disease.
Sneak Attack (Unchained) +5d6 Attacks deal extra dam if flank foe or if foe is flat-footed.
Spring Attack You can move - attack - move when attacking with a melee weapon.
Wayfinder (empty)
This is the Circling Mongoose two-weapon fighting build. I went swashbuckler archetype because of the bonuses to Acrobatics and the ability to take Combat Trick twice. This is not a simple build, and requires quite a bit of math and figuring on the fly. Building up to Circling Mongoose isn't bad, and Spring Attack is amazing because you can attack from a square an ally is already standing in (see Core Rulebook FAQ) which allows for a lot of sneak attack goodness.
I'll try to break down a combat round with Canny Tumble and Circling Mongoose, and two weapon fighting:
If you aren't adjacent to the target, you move up to them moving through a threatened square rolling Acrobatics. If you beat their CMD, they lose their DEX bonus, so you get sneak attack, and you get +2 to hit from Canny Tumble, if you don't beat their CMD, well you get +4 to AC from Mobility so hopefully they miss.
Next round, now that you are adjacent to the enemy, you combine Canny Tumble and Circling Mongoose. You take a 5' step, which provokes, so you use Acrobatics. This accomplishes the same thing as above (denied DEX for that attack, sneak attack, and +2 to hit). If you hit, yiy apply your Debilitating Injury: Bewildered (-4 to AC vs You) you take another 5' step and hit with your off-hand. You're considered Flanking, so that's +2 to hit and you get sneak attack, they are at -4 to AC from your Deb Strike. If that hits, you take another 5' step and hit with your iterative attack with the same benefits as before (+2 and sneak attack for flanking, -4 to their AC). If that hits, instead of applying your Debilitating Injury: Bewildered (-4 to AC vs You), you apply Debilitating Injury: Disoriented (-4 to hit you, -2 to hit anyone else).
This let's you pretty much get sneak attack every time you attack. If you look my Acrobatics is +31 at 9th level so I don't need much more than a 5 on the d20 to beat most CMD's, but that's with a Half-Elf's Skill Focus and a ring of unquenchable passions.
EDIT: I don't take Scout because I can get Circling Mongoose to come online at 8th with the Swashbuckler Archetype (or 9th without it) and the Scout comes online at about the same time. The trade-offs are Scouts keep their Trap abilities, Swashbuckler Archetype doesn't, but Scouts don't get full attacks with sneak attack, Circling Mongoose does.
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I tend to despise Rogues. A Core rogue being the weakest class in the game. Unchained made them better but it still has it's issues. Low saves coupled with a D8 HD being one of my main hang ups. Who wants to play a class that pretty much HAS to get into melee with a d8 HD, Light armor, and a weak Fortitude save.
I will suggest that he make a Slayer over a Rogue. Even the Unchained. Slayers are more combat efficient than the rogue.
But If you want a Basic UnRogue build that is easy to follow:
Elf 20 point buy:
Str: 10, Dex: 18, Con: 13(+1)= 14, Int: 13(+1)=14, Wis: 10 or 12 Cha: 10 or 12
You pick if you want the 12 to go in Wisdom or Cha then a 10 Goes in the other. It is really up to the Player. I prefer it to go in Wisdom for better will saves myself. But some people prefer that +1 to Cha skills cause rogues are a skill class and Bluff does run off Cha.
1: Exotic Weapon Prof- Elven Curved Blade
3: Combat Expertise
5: Improved Feint
6*: Combat Trick- Agile Maneuvers
7: Improved Dirty Trick
8*: Combat Trick Greater Feint
9: Butterfly Sting
11: Quick Dirty Trick
9 & 11 can trade places so you can Quick Dirty trick earlier.
I Like Dirty trick with Debilitating Attacks and Butterfly sting. It makes the rogue a true Team player while keeping the flavor of a scoundrel. Also gives him options to Feint or Try and Blind them with Dirty Trick and take SA on a blind target. If anything they waste a move action to end the effect and only get a single attack versus a Full attack.
2- Minor Magic- Breeze or Whatever (I like the +2 to saves on Poison gases and breath weapons)
4- Major Magic- Shield or Vanish (I like the Shield +4 AC)
6- Combat Trick- Agile Maneuvers
8- Combat Trick- Greater Feint
10- Opportunist
So with scout why not go spring attack chain? To many feats?
I think Spring Attack is totally worth it for a rogue, even more so for a scout. The damage of a rogue isn't bad, it's just extremely situational, which (among other things) gives them their bad reputation.
You should do anything possible to create these limited situations that allow you to use your full potential. Being able to walk around even a single enemy without provoking AoOs so you can set up full sneak attacks is totally worth the feat investment.
And it's not like the prerequisites are useless. Dodge is a decent feat, especially for a melee class with low-ish AC like the rogue. Mobility comes in handy if you need to move past more than one enemy and fail the acrobatics check (which will happen at some point).
Well it didn't matter much he played the character he thought it would be cool first encounter was with a vampire in a sealed room that there was no room to spring attack, and the vampire had ac 35 for 9th level characters, so that was TPK.
Yeah my buddy is a glutton for punishment or desperate for a game cause next they are making 30 point builds for planescape with some stat called luck that he said effects things of chance.
Yeah my buddy is a glutton for punishment or desperate for a game cause next they are making 30 point builds for planescape with some stat called luck that he said effects things of chance.
Yes. Yes, I am. I do it because I like the sting of the dominatrix whip. Until someone creates a system that shocks you for taking damage I will continue to build things like Urban Ranger/Rake wielding Chakrams in a non-city adventure. Yes that actually happened, sorry Joey.
This time I wanted to be able to actually contribute as I was joining an ongoing adventure, hence the request for an optimizing consult from helpful individuals like yourselves.
THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR HELP AND INPUT!!
(Well except for that one person, he was just plain mean.)
Well, while the original situation 'resolved' itself, I am still going to make suggestions for other forum-ites.
How about an animal companion?
Given the original condition of 'starting at level 9', you could easily get one through feats by then. Take nature soul and animal ally (and boon companion, since the feat gives you druid level-3), and you suddenly have a flanky buddy.
With an unchained rogue, having something whose sole purposes is to flank with you is a large boon. Maybe grab outflank and have the companion take 3 int so it can share.
Obviously, this path is feat intensive. There would likely be little to no room for TWF stuff... but hey- do you need that? You damage will be great since you will consistently get sneak attacks through flanking. It might be a good time to go with rapier (which is great with outflank, since that means your flank buddy also gets another hit in).
For suggested companions from the limited list- bird, dog, and small cat. Wolves are technically stronger for this role (not much room for pounces with all the maneuvering, and it has a nice one big hit bite for the outflank AoOs), but that assumes it goes large. And anyone with mounts can tell you the problems with that.
Yeah my buddy is a glutton for punishment or desperate for a game cause next they are making 30 point builds for planescape with some stat called luck that he said effects things of chance.
Yes. Yes, I am. I do it because I like the sting of the dominatrix whip. Until someone creates a system that shocks you for taking damage I will continue to build things like Urban Ranger/Rake wielding Chakrams in a non-city adventure. Yes that actually happened, sorry Joey.
This time I wanted to be able to actually contribute as I was joining an ongoing adventure, hence the request for an optimizing consult from helpful individuals like yourselves.
THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR HELP AND INPUT!!
(Well except for that one person, he was just plain mean.)
Holy Sh!t you make an appearance on the boards that is a rare site.