Mythic Summoner

[Daeion]

Hello,

Looking at replacing a character that was recently retired in a mythic campaign and I was leaning towards summoner; the summoner would be level 12 and mythic rank 5. I was looking at going straight summoner, and using speedy summons To get my Eidolon out round 2 after using summon monster round 1. I'm wondering what people's thoughts are on this, does this work or would people go a different route with a mythic summoner?

Thanks.

[LazarX]

There's nothing inherently wrong with that approach. It's a choice, just not the only one. Just about any combination of summoner and mythic should be equally adept at breaking the game.

[GM Rednal]

Summoners can be done fine - what matters is HOW you do them. ^^ Personally, I usually recommend supporting roles of some kind, generally in the sense of enhancing what the other players are trying to do.

There are a few summon-specific path abilities you can choose. Depending on how flexible your GM is, you could also look at Mythic Class Abilities (from the Mythic Mania Hero's Handbook - an excellent resource for mythic games) and choose from those.

[avr]

Actually, summons will die like flies against many mythic opponents. The real issue is how you're going to keep track of all the creatures you're putting on to the battlefield. Also, if you're going to be using speedy summons a lot you're going to be using a fair number of uses of mythic power; extra mythic power may not be a waste.

[Daeion]

How do summoners break the game? Is it just that a summoner's turn can take longer or is there something I'm missing? From my experience every class has the ability to break the game and when you add mythic into it, stuff just gets stupid broken. The group I’m playing with consists of a bloodrager with a ton of DR, an archer pali who can just about one shot anything, an Oracle who doesn’t really do much when it comes to combat, a bard, a ninja that is undetectable and spends every round fleet charging around, and myself. I’ve played summoning Wizards before and I’m always the fastest at the table.

We use roll 20 for all of our battles so I place the tokens, add their health bars, and then subtract from them if they get hit. Typically though the DM tends to focus on the players and not the summons.

[GM Rednal]

The longer time it takes per-turn is definitely a factor in tabletop games. If you're playing a Summoner, you should be EXTREMELY prepared and have all of the information you need prepared and ready to hand to the GM at any time. ^^ That definitely helps.

[Cuup]

Summoners aren't broken. They have a negative stigma because they're very attractive to inexperienced players, but their turns can become extremely complicated, as described above, resulting in poor book keeping and bogged down combat. As long as you come prepared, as you've stated, the class isn't at all broken, if slightly op.

The OP factor is definitely re-balanced by mythic, though, in my opinion. Most Mythic abilities are focused on making YOURSELF stronger/tougher. Only a handful of abilities can improve your companion/eidolon and summons. Mythic Monsters won't be so overwhelmed by summons. That said, though, Summoning is never, ever a bad choice in combat, so as others have said, I say go for it.

[Daeion]

Does anyone have any thoughts on going straight summoner vs say master summoner? I'm thinking straight summoner with a full forced Eidolon plus the summons might be more effective but maybe I'm missing something.

[GM Rednal]

The Summoner can call up a team. The Master Summoner can call up an army. XD If foes're going to tear through your summons like they're paper, though... well, it's best to focus your power one way or the other. Make a strong Eidolon capable of fighting mythic foes, or just summon so many minions that SOMETHING eventually sticks.

[Melkiador]

Summoner is strong and mythic is strong, but the two don't interact very strongly. Really, if you want to try summoner without the stigma of being overpowered, I could think of no better place than in a mythic game.

[Chris Lambertz]

Removed an unhelpful post.

[Rogar Stonebow]

avr wrote:

Actually, summons will die like flies against many mythic opponents. The real issue is how you're going to keep track of all the creatures you're putting on to the battlefield. Also, if you're going to be using speedy summons a lot you're going to be using a fair number of uses of mythic power; extra mythic power may not be a waste.

I thought with the right mythic stuff, all summons had mythic DR and become even better than before!

[avr]

Rogar Stonebow wrote:

avr wrote:

Actually, summons will die like flies against many mythic opponents. The real issue is how you're going to keep track of all the creatures you're putting on to the battlefield. Also, if you're going to be using speedy summons a lot you're going to be using a fair number of uses of mythic power; extra mythic power may not be a waste.

I thought with the right mythic stuff, all summons had mythic DR and become even better than before!

With mythic augment summoning, if the summoned creature already had DR it becomes DR/epic. Any mythic creature with DR does the same (which allows them to penetrate DR/epic too), and generally has mythic feats or other such boosts which the summons don't.

Your (5 HD+) summons may be harder for non-mythic mooks to kill, but they're actually worse in relative terms against the big guys.