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I'm after some advice on a 20 point Paladin build for the Giantslayer Adventure Path.
I want to steer clear of the sword and board type and go for the two handed weapon option, probably with a falchion.
A few years ago I was given the following build based on rolled stats, but a lot has changed since then and there might be something that can add to it, or is better:
18, 14, 8, 11, 14, 14
Human Paladin (Oath of Vengeance)
Attributes:
STR - 14
DEX - 14
CON - 14
INT - 11 (+1 at 20th)
WIS - 8
CHA - 18 (+2 racial bonus, +1 at 4th, 8th, 12th and 16th)
Traits:
Reactionary
Purity of Faith
Feats:
1st - Fey Foundling
1st - Power Attack
3rd - Deadly Aim
5th - Extra Lay on Hands
7th - Extra Lay on Hands
9th - Extra Lay on Hands
11th - Extra Lay on Hands
13th - Extra Lay on Hands
15th - Extra Lay on Hands
17th - Greater Mercy
19th - Ultimate Mercy or Radiant Charge
Any help would be much appreciated.
Regards
Prux.
Why such a focus on Charisma and lay on hands? You won't need nearly so much healing if you can actually hurt the enemies yourself.
I'd recommend sticking the 18 in Strength, and then putting a 14 and your +2 racial into Charisma. Also, consider putting the 11 in Dex (and bumping it to 12 at level 4), and a 14 in Int, so you can qualify for Unsanctioned Knowledge.
So it would look something like this:
Human Paladin (Oath of Vengeance)
Attributes:
STR - 18 (+1 at 8th, 12th, 16th, and 20th)
DEX - 11 (+1 at 4th)
CON - 14
INT - 14
WIS - 8
CHA - 14 (+2 racial bonus)
Traits:
Reactionary
Purity of Faith
Feats:
1st - Fey Foundling
1st - Power Attack
3rd - Additional Traits (Fate's Favored, Magical Knack)
5th - Unsanctioned Knowledge
7th - Extra Lay On Hands
9th - Greater Mercy
11th - Ultimate Mercy
13th - Furious Focus
15th - Extra Lay on Hands
17th - Extra Lay on Hands
19th - Extra Lay on Hands
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The advice given to me last time about the extra lay on hands:
Here's the deal - with Fey Foundling you gain an additional +2 hit points per die whenever you heal yourself or are healed by another (including channelling, I believe). That's huge. You also gain the benefits of Mercies when you self-heal or heal others which is also huge. Moreover, you know how awesome Smites are? Well, Oath of Vengeance allows you to sub some of those Lay on Hands in for extra Smites, so now you're fueling both your offense AND your defense. Power Attack and Deadly Aim were taken to make you equally dangerous in melee or at range when you're Smiting because the attack bonus should more than offset your penalty for using those feats. Also keep in mind the massive bonus to saving throws you'll be getting, all of those Paladin immunities and the auras you'll be generating to help protect your teammates.
Let me put this in perspective. Assuming no ability-boosting magic items, at 6th level you'll have 10 uses of Lay on Hands a day. Assuming that you don't use any of those to get extra smites, that gives you (3d6+6)x10 extra hit points to play with. That works out to about 160 bonus hit points a day. By 12th level that number jumps to (6d6+12)x20 or around 660 bonus hit points a day. At 20th that number becomes 2,552 bonus hit points. A day. Again, that's in addition to being able to wear full armor, have all those boosted saves, gain all those Paladin immunities etc.
So you have all the self-heals you want without ever having to take a break in combat, all the Smites you want which makes you a killing machine and protection from almost anything that could incapacitate you or turn you against the party. You have heals that can use to help out party members between battles or when you bed down for the night... and let us not forget spells. Paladins have some truly great spells. In particular, I recommend:
1st level - Hero's Defiance (let's you cast Lay on Hands as an immediate action - its good to hang onto a couple of these to be truly unkillable)
2nd level - Litany of Righteousness (swift action spell that doubles the damage you deal for 1 round against evil creatures - combined with Smite its pretty much a death spell)
3rd level - Blessing of Fervor (normally not a Paladin spell but Oath of Vengeance gets it for you - probably one of the best group buffs out there)
4th level - Bloodsworn Retribution (+5 attacks, +5 saves, +5 skill and ability checks, pretty much all the time? Yes, please)
That's the build that absolutely thrived in RotRL Anniversary Ed. He was a LOT of fun to play.
If you want to go healing so much, you may as well be a hospitaller paladin. Note that healing is often shunned on the boards. But in general, healing is more useful, the smaller or less optimized your team is.
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My advice-
Get Dangerously curious and skill up UMD.
Use wands and scrolls to add layered defenses. A wand of shield is so cheap you can burn a charge before entering a room. Scrolls are nice too. Like scroll of fly.
Get Unsanctioned Knowledge.
Get Improved critical- falchion. this + bless weapon is auto confirm crits.
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My advice-
Get Dangerously curious and skill up UMD.
Use wands and scrolls to add layered defenses. A wand of shield is so cheap you can burn a charge before entering a room. Scrolls are nice too. Like scroll of fly.Get Unsanctioned Knowledge.
Get Improved critical- falchion. this + bless weapon is auto confirm crits.
I like the idea of UMD and bless weapon. What spells would you recommend for Unsanctioned Knowledge?
As a Paladin, your job is to Smite Evil things. therefore you need to be good with your weapon. You are a fighter and a tank. the Healing you can do is nice, but healing is the clerics job. Concentrate on your job and your party will be better overall.
That being said, the build Rainy Day is a better build, but I would drop the feats that boost healing and buy feats that boost damage output.
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I like the idea of UMD and bless weapon. What spells would you recommend for Unsanctioned Knowledge?
1st Expeditious Retreat
2nd Mirror Image3rd Good Hope
4th Dimension Door
I like the combination of extra lay on hands and oath of vengeance! It's basically Extra Smite.
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What spells would you recommend for Unsanctioned Knowledge?
This is tough because there is so many good ones.
1- Weapon Wand, Feather Step, E. Retreat
2- Heroism, Mirror Image, Defending Bone,
3- Good Hope, Haste, Magic Vestment
4- Blessing of Fervor, Freedom of Movement
A lot of the choice will depend on you the player and your play style.
Would like to point out that the stats you have listed you cannot get with a 20 point buy:
An Example would be:
Str 16 (10 points) Dex 12 (2 points) Con 14 (5 points)
Int 10 (0 Points) Wis 8 (-2 Points) Charisma 14 (5 points)
After Racials Str:18 Dex:12 Con:14 Int:10 Wis:8 Char:14 with all levels going into Char is a really strong 20 point array for a 2hand build. I could see arguments for int over dex or droping Wis to 7 for the same when you consider paladin immunities. Paying for an 18 in 20 point buy is only for DC based save or die casters. For everyone else 18 is a huge waste before racials.
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Here's the deal - with Fey Foundling you gain an additional +2 hit points per die whenever you heal yourself or are healed by another (including channelling, I believe).
Fey Foundling
You were found in the wilds as a child, bearing a mark of the First World.Prerequisites: You may only select this feat at 1st level.
Benefit: Your strange connection to the First World and the fey infuses you with life, and whenever you receive magical healing, you heal an additional 2 points per die rolled. You gain a +2 bonus on all saving throws against death effects. Unfortunately, you also suffer +1 point of damage from cold iron weapons (although you can wield cold iron weapons without significant discomfort).
Cha base paladins are a trap. They make you very good at fighting things that are evil. If they are not evil you are worthless. If your out of smite evil you are worthless. I never recommend Cha focus paladin to any one for any reason. They are to narrow in focus of what they can fight. Your a full bab class that can only fight evil things effectively. That will never cut it in real game play. As I know for a fact the Giant Slayer obituary thread has quite a few natural bad guys as the cause of death.
I highly recommend you look at paladins as making a fighter. That can get some use out of Cha. Instead of look at oracle that can use Str. Every one that makes combat clerics, and/or oracles will tell you the same. Str, or Dex over casting stat every time. This goes for the paladin the same way it dose for the other classes. Paladins are not the exception to this rule. I have seen a lot of players try healing paladin and fall flat every time.
Look at level 10.
Paladin as you have shown vs. Cleric with Heal on his spell list.
With just one casting of Heal the cleric wins. If they are combat clerics they will have it ready a few times. Healing 100 HP and removing all conditions including all stat damage. Is far more powerful then any mercy you can get as a paladin. We don't even need to look at channel as at this level it's good for out of combat healing.
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Would like to point out that the stats you have listed you cannot get with a 20 point buy:
An Example would be:
Str 16 (10 points) Dex 12 (2 points) Con 14 (5 points)
Int 10 (0 Points) Wis 8 (-2 Points) Charisma 14 (5 points)After Racials Str:18 Dex:12 Con:14 Int:10 Wis:8 Char:14 with all levels going into Char is a really strong 20 point array for a 2hand build. I could see arguments for int over dex or droping Wis to 7 for the same when you consider paladin immunities. Paying for an 18 in 20 point buy is only for DC based save or die casters. For everyone else 18 is a huge waste before racials.
They were the stats tha I used the last time I built a Paladin. This time I have a 20 point build to work with.