Intensified + Empowered + Draconic bloodline arcana (+1 damage for every die roll) - how does it work?
For example, fireball, 15th CL.
10d6+10 - Standart.
15d6+15(?) - Intensified.
22d6(?)+22(?), or 22d6(?)+33(?), or 15d6(?)+22(?) - Intesified + Empowered.
Maybe, some other variants. Please, explain me, how does it work?
15d6 +15 intensified, 22d6+22 intensified and empowered (in fact, it would be (15d6+15) x1.5)
Standard: 10D6+10
Intensified: 15D6+15
Empowered: 1.5(10D6+10)
Intensified and Empowered: 1.5(15D6+15)
The tricky part is maximized. It doesn't stack with empowered.
So a maximized would do 70. Max+intensified, 90. Max+empowered, 70+ 5d6+5. And max+int+emp, 90+7d6+7. Or, to be more precise, 90+ 0.5 x (15d6+15)
Empower occurs after all dice are rolled and totalled.
It does not increase a dice pool.
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The tricky part is maximized. It doesn't stack with empowered.
So a maximized would do 70. Max+intensified, 105. Max+empowered, 70+ 5d6+5. And max+int+emp, 90+7d6+7. Or, to be more precise, 105+ 0.5 x (15d6+15)
I think Max+Intensified should total 105, not 90, for the Draconic bloodline.
15d6 + 15=15*6 + 15,=90 + 15=105.
Em... so, 15 or 22?
My opinion is that if it makes CL higher (and you match this cl) - empower makes it 22d6+22
Empower doesn't multiply the dice, it multiplies the total damage.
So x 1.5 = 70 damage
What? Total damage? It was 1,5 on dice and bonuses all the time!
The rules was changed?
All variable, numeric effects of an empowered spell are increased by half, including bonuses to those dice rolls.
Saving throws and opposed rolls are not affected, nor are spells without random variables. An empowered spell uses up a spell slot two levels higher than the spell's actual level.
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Yes, the EFFECTS are increased by 1.5. There's an old clarification floating around I had pointed out to me a few months ago, but I can't find it right now.
Edit: NVM, found the post.
Where was it confirmed?It is confirmed here, here, here and here. I'm fairly certain you get more damage this way, so this method is a good thing.
I hope that helps. :D
Follow yon links.
The first two are largely irrelevant (JJ isn't a rules guy), but the last two make it pretty clear even if the static modifiers thing was later FAQ'd in.
After rolling seems to be the intent.
My whole world was ruind. Or not?..
It generally averages out to HIGHER damages, and prevents you from getting screwed over on odd numbers of dice (like 15).
Ok, but what about maximized + empowered with this system?
There was a restriction
Ok, but what about maximized + empowered with this system?
There was a restriction
It's really not that overpowered, considering you can only maximize + empower a 4th level or lower spell. It turns shocking grasp into a level 6 spell...
Barring Magical Lineage, Wayang Spellhunter, Spell Perfection, or any others that I might be leaving out, of course.
Yes, but what "rolled damage", if it is multiplied AFTER, like Rynjin said.
Roll damage. Divide by 2. Add to maximum damage.
So 10d6 might roll up to 36. Maximized empowered fireball where you roll 36 would be 18 + 60 = 78 damage.
According to the FAQ, if a spell has a numerical bonus Empower Spell would affect that bonus, but would Empower Spell affect bonuses outside of the spell, such as those from the Dragon Bloodline?
A CL10 Empowered Fireball would do (10d6)x1.5 damage, but you still only roll 10 dice so the bonus from Dragon Bloodline wouldn't change. The total damage would be (10d6)x1.5+10.
Yes empower boosts the bonus damage from the bloodline.
So a 10d6+20 empowered maximized fireball from a crossblooded orc/dragon does 60+20+(10d6+20)/2 otherwise written as 90+10d6/2
The "rolled damage" for a Maximized spell is the maximum damage. You rolled a 6 (or 4, 8, 10, 12) for every die.
An empowered, maximized spell gains the separate benefits of each feat: the maximum result plus half the normally rolled result.
no an intensified empowered fireball maxes at (15d6+30)X1.5
Maximized it becomes 90+30+(15d6+30)/2 or 135+15d6/2
It. Is. Truely. DIFFICULT.
Espessialy with this new rule about multyplying after all benefits. And with dragon bloodline special bonuses, that nobody knows how to calculate. We need a FAQ about it with all samples.
Is there any guidance in the rules why empowered works with intensified but does not with maximized?no an intensified empowered fireball maxes at (15d6+30)X1.5
Maximized it becomes 90+30+(15d6+30)/2 or 135+15d6/2
Because intensyfied just makes cl cape higher, and does not have additional text about empowering, like maximized spell
@ Ozy: Maximize Spell specifically calls out how it interacts with the Empower feat, in that you calculate them separately, and their effects are parenthetical (that is, you do them both separately, then add the results together). The Empower feat makes no such mention with Intensify. Additionally, Intensify specifically mentions that it raises the caster level capacity by up to 5, which means the base for which these feats apply are increased (and therefore the Empower and/or Maximize feat benefits are increased).
**EDIT** The levels in Ninja are real.
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Since people don't know how to math (no offense, of course), let's try this again, assuming a generic Fireball:
Standard - 10D6
Intensified - 15D6
Empowered - 1.5(10D6)
Maximized - 60
Intensified + Empowered - 1.5(15D6)
Empowered + Maximized - 60 + 5D6
Intensified + Maximized - 90
Intensified + Empowered + Maximized - 90 + 7D6
Almost....
Empowered + Maximized - 60 + 5D6
60 + 0.5(10D6)
Intensified + Empowered + Maximized - 90 + 7D6
90 + 0.5(15D6)
Your
Empowered + Maximized - 60 + 5D6
and
Intensified + Empowered + Maximized - 90 + 7D6
are wrong, it should be
60 + 10d6 x .5
and
90 + 15d6 x .5
Dang Ninja's they be everywhere ;)
...and now wih dragon bloodline? ;)
Standard - 10D6 +10
Intensified - 15D6 + 15
Empowered - 1.5(10D6 + 10)
Maximized - 70
Intensified + Empowered - 1.5(15D6 + 15)
Empowered + Maximized - 70 + .5(10D6 + 10)
Intensified + Maximized - 105
Intensified + Empowered + Maximized - 105 + .5(15D6 + 15)
Dragon and Orc in a crossblooded
Standard - 10D6 + 20
Intensified - 15D6 + 30
Empowered - 1.5(10D6 + 20)
Maximized - 80
Intensified + Empowered - 1.5(15D6 + 30)
Empowered + Maximized - 80 + .5(10D6 + 20)
Intensified + Maximized - 120
Intensified + Empowered + Maximized - 120 + .5(15D6 + 30)
Almost....
Empowered + Maximized - 60 + 5D6
60 + 0.5(10D6)
90 + 0.5(15D6)
Intensified + Empowered + Maximized - 90 + 7D6
In hindsight, that would be correct, since you take 50% of the total. Looks like I can't really math either. (Better than most, I guess.)
@ Lupus: You add +1 for each dice you roll. Remember that when you combine both Empowered + Maximized, you only add +1 for the base dice that you use. In the above equations, you would only add +10 (and +15 for Intensified). The rolling would only apply for determining the overall benefits of the Empowered effect, and is not actual damage dice.
Maximized doesn't remove the damage dice you have to roll, so even if you were just launching a Maximized Fireball, it's still a +10, because damage dice is still involved, it's just the results are..."fixed," for lack of a better term.
So, to finalize, with Fireball and Draconic Bloodline:
Standard - 10D6+10
Intensified - 15D6+15
Empowered - 1.5(10D6+10)
Maximized - 70
Intensified + Empowered - 1.5(15D6+15)
Empowered + Maximized - 70 + 0.5(10D6)
Intensified + Maximized - 105
Intensified + Empowered + Maximized - 105 + 0.5(15D6)
Math should be correct on that.
close again Darksol You add half the bonus to the damage with empowered. So the same two that were wrong before are wrong again. The inside of the () should be the same as the versions without maximize.
close again Darksol You add half the bonus to the damage with empowered. So the same two that were wrong before are wrong again. The inside of the () should be the same as the versions without maximize.
But you're not multiplying the extra damage dice. The +1's are from the damage dice being rolled. You're adding it twice when it shouldn't be added.
the +1s are part of "the normally rolled result." The fireballs normally rolled result is 10d6+10. So you'd add half of that to the maximized fireball.
Also be sure you get my two straight. My first list is with just orc OR dragon. The second list is with orc AND dragon
Yes empower boosts the bonus damage from the bloodline.
Reasoning? It's a discussion board.
The FAQ says Empower affects the numerical components of spells with numerical components, not all bonuses to all spells. Fireball is not a spell with a numerical component.
The Dragon Bloodline adds +1 to damage for each die rolled, an empowered fireball still only rolls 10 dice.
I apologize if phrasing my last post as a question confused you. I was seeking discourse.
this FAQ says
Empower Spell: If I use Empower Spell on a spell that has a die roll with a numerical bonus (such as cure moderate wounds), does the feat affect the numerical bonus?
Yes. For example, if you empower cure moderate wounds, the +50% from the feat applies to the 2d8 and to the level-based bonus.
so my fireball is 10d6+10 and empower boosts the numerical bonuses too, aka the +10.
EDIT:
because dragon says, "that spell deals +1 point of damage per die rolled." so the spell itself is dealing more damage and thus there isn't a second source outside the spell.