We haven't gotten to this point yet, but I figured I'd ask about the general situation. Here's the party:
STR 18 barbarian greataxing her way through life.
STR 13 cleric with a cold iron mace.
STR 13 rogue stabby.
STR 10 sorceror.
STR 11 bard.
As you can guess, the main melee are the barb and cleric; the rogue and bard prefer archery but have waded into melee too.
Let's say that we stumble across a Belt of Physical Strength +2. Is this better helping one of the backup melee, or should the barbarian yell 'mine' and run off with it giggling?
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Yea the barbarian should take it, she will use it every single foght
Barbarian, without a second thought. If it were dex +2 or wis +2 it should be pretty obvious too. Cha +2 would be a tough call though.
Cha+2 straight to Sorc.
Bard has a multitude of class feature for combat aside from spells. Sorcerer only has spells. The Sorcerer would use it for a higher % of its class features.
How could you forgive yourself if you missed the chance to see a barbarian giggle?
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For the most part the barbarian would be the logical choice for it. I am assuming that the party is at least 3rd level so the cleric has 2nd level spells which include Bulls Strength. If you run into something really tough the cleric can always boost himself up higher than the belt anyways.
The only exception I would see is if the cleric spends a lot of time fighting in melee and is having a difficult time hitting where the barbarian is already slaughtering things left and right, except the boss fights where event the barbarian is having a tough time. In that case giving the belt to the cleric would allow him to contribute more during most encounters, and use Bulls Strength on the barbarian for the boss fights. This would be a rather unusual campaign, but I have seen it happen. If the barbarian is doing way more damage than he needs to take down the target it is wasted damage.
Hum i guess the barbarian should have it , if he/she doesnt want , then others can make a claim.
And ofc , usually i run groups that if you want something , then you pay for the gold the others would have gained , which means the player usually pays 50% of the items cost for whatever he/she wants of the loot pool less their share.
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My typical version of this is to "credit" people items.
Credit being an intangible force that exists.
In basic English it works like this:
A party with x members finds an item. That item is worth y gold if sold for 1/2 value. (That rhymed: I'm a poet and I don't even know it.)
Therefore, everyone should receive (y/x) gold for the item, but someone wants to use it!
Said character can use the item, but "owes" everyone (y/x) gold until the item is sold and the gold divvied up or the other characters in the party go into that much "credit debt" with the other character, thereby equalizing the debt.
Ideally, everyone finds an item they want that more or less equalizes the debts, but that isn't how adventuring typically works. You go out, you find some cool stuff and it is usually only one or two people who actually get gear.
This usually isn't a problem as there are typically two front-liners (fighter, rogue), one middle-liner (Cleric) and one back-liner (wizard) to use general terms. The front liners will probably build into different stats, especially since the Unchained rogue now exists, meaning one will want STR and CON items, one will want DEX and CON items. The Cleric will want CON and WIS items, and the Wizard will want DEX/CON and INT items depending on build. So, we have one item that overlaps with everyone (CON items), but aside from that everything else is fairly open. The Fighter wants to fight more, the rogue wants to rogue more, the cleric wants to be super-holy-man and the Wizard wants to be LEFT THE HELL ALONE—seriously, he's studying his spellbook FFS!
So, we come to priority: the fighter is probably going to be intentionally trying to keep everything's attention because that is his job, the rogue will be trying to murder everything, because that is his job, the cleric will be trying to keep everyone alive while also murdering things, because that is his job, and the Wizard will be spamming something and complaining about how this is a bad idea, because that is his job.
OP is asking about a Belt of Giant's Strength +2. It should go to the Barbarian. He is probably 2-handing, screaming obscenities about peoples mothers (and fathers) and needs all the punching power he can.
So, if memory serves, and by memory I mean d20pfsrd, the Belt of Giant's Strength costs about 4,000 gp to buy, and sells for around 2,000 gp. So the Barbarian can keep it, granted he accepts that he owes everyone else 400 gp (because his cut of 2,000 gp is locked into him keeping the item). So, when that belt of CON comes up, everyone should ask, "who should we give this to." Perhaps the Barbarian goes into further debt, or maybe he, and someone else, equalize their debt while both owing the others money.
It sounds like a complicated system, but it really isn't unless the GM is making it rain with magic items while the players have their characters dance on poles.
What Taku Ooka Nin said.
Been using something like this for DECADES and it works just fine.
What Taku Ooka Nin said.
Been using something like this for DECADES and it works just fine.
Pretty much, plus it means that everyone can intentionally turn someone, typically the breaching character, into a complete badarse with the best possible gear available and the highest level of survival possible.
This also means that if someone if playing a thief, the thief can "steal" from the party to be in character, while, in reality, is just accruing credit with them from a mechanical standpoint.It honestly solves a ton of problems, and keeps things as transparent as possible.
Thirding Taku's system. The transparency and fairness of it really makes things work so much more smoothly. Plus it avoids any potential drama over people feeling like their characters aren't getting a fair share of the loot.
I' m amazed you're asking us. This is a discussion to be had with your fellow players, long before that treasure actually shows up.
There are a LOT of ways to divide treasure, several pages of the 1e rules are dedicated to the topic. You can use the system above, you can roll for it, you can take turns picking, etc, etc.
But the most important thing is that all the players agree on the system. You seem to have assumed 'every item goes where it will be be most effective'. That's also a decision, but not the only possibility. You should confirm that your fellow players have the same idea in mind.
Now, if you' re already done that, I agree, it's most efficient for the group if the barbarian has it. But that assumes that the group has a reason to trust each other and to cooperate.
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We use a similar system to Taku's. Every item found is assigned a "sale" value based on what we can get for it. Shares are divided equally. If any character want's an item, they can "purchase" it by deducting it's (sale) value from their share and/or putting in gold to make up the difference. If they can't afford it, it gets sold, unless the entire party agrees to forfeit dividing it's value until more loot can be found. Until then it stays a party item on loan.
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For us everything is a party item on loan. Every item is assigned to a character by party council based on loose feelings about who would benefit most, who hasn't gotten much, and how much it's worth as an item vs. as gold. If you get an item that replaces another (+2 longsword to replace your +1), you contribute the replaced item to the party loot pile. After all the loot is sold and the raw coinage added, the total amount is divided evenly. It may not be 100% "fair", but since every item is given on group consensus, we've never had an issue.
It sounds like the OP is in a system similar to what we use, which would mean it's up to the party to decide. I get the feeling he's trying to figure out how he would vote/debate for this item. In my group we would be letting the barbarian have it, unless the cleric is actually trying to be a dedicated melee (seems unlikely with 13 str). In that case, we would give it to the cleric to try to have 2 turns of competent actions instead of 1 great turn and 1 lame turn.
Overall, I have a feeling the best distribution goes to the barbarian.
The groups I play with would generally give it to whomever needs it the most. If that cleric is getting into melee a lot, he probably needs it more than the barbarian and would get it. If he's not and the barbarian is the only one regularly getting into melee, then the barbarian gets it.
Let's say that we stumble across a Belt of Physical Strength +2. Is this better helping one of the backup melee, or should the barbarian yell 'mine' and run off with it giggling?
If you're trying to figure out what's mathematically better, it's the barbarian, as others have said. The belt gives, among other things, +1 to hit. That increases your average damage output per attack by (average damage per hit) multiplied by 0.05. The average damage per hit will be highest for the barbarian. The barbarian will also attack more often, unless the cleric never casts spells in battle.
One more here that uses the same system as Taku. Keeps stuff nice and fair, even if you have to do a bit of calculating.
We vary how loot is split up depending on the campaign and nature of the party a bit, but generally we use a share system as well, with each PC getting one share and the party as a whole getting another for consumables, resurrections, and general party needs. Players can then buy what they want for the price it would get the party if sold. It is rare that two people want the same thing, if that happens we would work it out. If someone wants something and they can't afford it, they have to raise the money somehow, usually loans from other players or the group fund.
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Davor you must not know clerics very well.
A 13 str is enough if you build right.
Reach tatics, combat reflexes, evangelist Archetype, and self buffs. You can still do very decent damage. Add in your choice domains like: heroism, Growth, ferocity....your doing better than a few classes.
The belt might help him take bulls str off his list of buffs spells allowing him to buff with Cat's grace and get in more AoO and have a more respectful AC and Reflex to boot.
Thanks for the input. I'm more looking at conventional wisdom/optimisation opinions.
For the record, most of our loot division has been 'OK, these are all martial weapons that only the barbarian can use.' We've found one magic longsword, which went without argument to the bard as the only other one who can wield the blasted thing. My poor barbarian hadn't even gotten her hands on a bow until partway through our current run where a composite longbow with +4 Str found itself without its former owner.
Now another fun optimising question..replace the +2 Str belt with a +2 Int headband. The rogue's at Int 15, sorcerer and bard at 14, the barbarian (who thinks she's the brains of the outfit, but that's more her ego) with 13, and the cleric at 10. Part of me thinks the cleric needs as many skill points as he can get, but..
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Davor you must not know clerics very well.
A 13 str is enough if you build right.
Reach tatics, combat reflexes, evangelist Archetype, and self buffs. You can still do very decent damage. Add in your choice domains like: heroism, Growth, ferocity....your doing better than a few classes.
The belt might help him take bulls str off his list of buffs spells allowing him to buff with Cat's grace and get in more AoO and have a more respectful AC and Reflex to boot.
Well if 13 is enough then he doesn't need the belt *kidding*. As a tactical consideration, bringing the barbarian from 20 to 22str (26 when raging) adds +1 to hit and +3 damage (because you go from odd to even bonus with a 2-hander) to the guy you really hope is 1 rounding the BBEG. Adding to the reach cleric's ability to maybe drop mooks isn't as important IMO. If they're both hitting the same thing it equals out to roughly the same boost for the party as the whole--but the cleric might have a lot of other options regarding actions he takes in a round and places he chooses to stand, while the barbarian's specialized role is SMASH BIG BAD GUY. Thus the Str. belt buffs the only tactic the Barbarian uses. My vote would be to give the damage and hit boost to the guy who can't really do other things, both from a fun standpoint and a tactics standpoint.
As for the question on Int. headbands--check their sheet. Who is pumping the widest variety of Int based skills? That player should get the headband because they get the biggest benefit; each Int skill they have a rank in gets a bonus. Then they should credit the party on their gear account, treating it as a loan and buying the item from the party when they have enough gold at the 1/2 price the party would have gotten if no one agreed and it had to be liquidated.
That's my point, some groups roll off for treasure. Others have bizarre convoluted systems, others just wing it and don't worry about balance.
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Davor you must not know clerics very well.
A 13 str is enough if you build right.
Reach tatics, combat reflexes, evangelist Archetype, and self buffs. You can still do very decent damage. Add in your choice domains like: heroism, Growth, ferocity....your doing better than a few classes.
The belt might help him take bulls str off his list of buffs spells allowing him to buff with Cat's grace and get in more AoO and have a more respectful AC and Reflex to boot.
If he had 14 strength, we'd be in agreement.
A 13 is as good as a 12, and nobody, save for the rare weapon finesse builds out there, thinks that 12-13 is acceptable for a combat-oriented, melee-centric build. Yes, reach tactics, evangelist clerics are awesome. But you have to be able to hit something in order to be awesome, and with only 13 strength, you won't be hitting often, nor will you be hitting very hard.
Trust me, I LOVE reach clerics. One of my first pathfinder characters ever was a reach-cleric, and she remains one of my favorites to this day. She also had a starting strength of 16, because I like hitting things, and doing decent damage, while still being able to cast buff spells and have enough Dex. for Combat Reflexes.
But that's not what the OP said. A one-handed mace-wielding, 13. Str. cleric is not a melee cleric. It's a big lump of metal that pretends to be melee.
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Have to agree with Davor. 13 Str can be done with a melee cleric, but not well. But we're not talking about any cleric, we're talking about the OP's example. And that is not a cleric that can use a belt of Str. That's a cleric that needs to pump Con to last long enough for his 1d8+Str to do something.
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13 str just screams, "I heard you need power attack to be a good melee, so I got to the required str 13 so I could use power attack. Hurray, I've successfully lowered my already terrible accuracy for a middling increase to damage! Don't worry, it'll upgrade at level 6 to make up for me not getting an iterative attack!"