Concentrating a Cloak of Resistance

[Piccolo]

Hello,

I was wondering if a Cloak of Resistance +1 could be concentrated into a Cloak of Will +3, in that all of the saving throw bonuses would be in the Will save category instead of spread out into Fortitude and Reflex.

If this was possible, would it cost the same as a standard Cloak of Resistance +1?

[Kalindlara]

There are no official rules for doing so, and I doubt most GMs would allow it at the same price.

You might wish to check out the three Mythic cloaks, which have an additional +1 to a given save.

[Piccolo]

Why wouldn't it be allowed? There's no mechanical advantage, indeed, having such a cloak would mean the other saving throws are neglected.

[Cavall]

At best I'd say it's worth a will +2 if you're to do this. But really what it does is set up the option of buying a cloak +3 and having it be a +9 it a save. The balance is vastly different now.

[Kalindlara]

On top of that, 1,000 gp for a +3 to Will saves is very different from +1 to all saves. Think of what fighters do to improve their Will saves. Do you think every fighter in existence wouldn't immediately have one?

In any case, if you think it's balanced, go ahead. It's your game, and you know better than anyone what it needs. ^_^

[Piccolo]

Well, most warrior types just take Iron Will, and that is it. If they're lucky they have a trait that ups Will saves by +1.

I just don't understand why such a cloak wouldn't be normally allowed. Oh well. To me, it doesn't seem like a huge advantage, indeed, it's more limited than the standard cloak of resistance.

[Cavall]

It's not more limited however as you're buying it to boost only what you want. That's why feats that boost saves give 2 not 3.

Think of it this way. If I wanted a headband that boosted int, and said I only want the increased DC to my spells, not an extra skill at my level, not a boost to all int based skills either, so since I want only 1 thing and not 3, I should pay to have my DC go up by 3 for the price of a headband +2. So if I buy a 5, I should get a 15 to all my DC. And it's not as good as a normal headband.

That's what you're asking. To cherry pick it and take what you want.

It's not equivalent. It's not even close.

[Gorbacz]

Consider the fact that while an item that gives you +2 to Int, Wis and Cha costs 16k, an item that gives you +6 to one of them costs 36k. In general, big bonus to one variable is more powerful than equivalent total bonus to multiple variables, not the least because the former allows you to boost your strongest facet even further.

[Kalindlara]

Or shore up your weakest facet, without paying for bonuses to aspects you already excel at.

[leo1925]

The math doesn't up, for a cloak of +2 will you should have it at the price of cloak of res +1, for a cloak of + 4 will you should have it at the price of cloak of res +2 (those two cases the math work) but in all the other cases the math don't work.

[Matthew Downie]

As a GM I might charge you 3000gp for a custom item like that - a third of the price of a Cloak of Resistance +3, since it only provides a third as many bonuses.

[Rub-Eta]

Take the belts and the headbands as an example:
A +2 costs 4000gp. A +2/+2 costs 10000gp. A +4 costs 16000gp and a +4/+4 is 40000gp. They shouldn't cost the same, as their impacts are very different. One +1 is not the same as another +1, even between saves. By your logic, a +4/+4 belt would cost 16000gp (four times as much as a +2) and a +4 belt would cost as much as a +2/+2, which is not the case. That's not an arbitrary decision made by Paizo. Higher numbers costs more.

[Casual Viking]

Piccolo wrote:

Why wouldn't it be allowed? There's no mechanical advantage, indeed, having such a cloak would mean the other saving throws are neglected.

WRONG. Wrong, wrong, wrong. Prices are quadratic, not linear. Yor hypothetical Cloak of +3 Will Saves would be 9.000 for a +3 cloak, with a reduction for only covering one save, so at the very least 3.000, more reasonably 4.500.

[KestrelZ]

It is like ability scores, 3 ability scores gaining +1 does not equal one score gaining +3.

This isn't to say such an item could be made, it just should be made at a cost greater than a general +1 resistance and less than +3 general resistance.

A specific resistance against only one type of save would be much more valuable to any PC that has a weak save for that type of save. An example would be a Ranger buying a cloak for a +3 will save. Since the ranger has strong fortitude and reflex saves, such a cloak mitigates the PCs only weak save by a significant amount.

[Mysterious Stranger]

There is the cloak of free will from Mythic Adventures. While it is not exactly what you are asking for it is close. It is basically a cloak of protection with an extra +1 on will saves. There are also variants for reflex and fortitude saves. The cost is 150% of the cloak of protection. So a +1/+2 is 1,500 GP instead of 1,000 GP.

I would not allow a straight +3 will save in a game I run, any more than I would allow a weapon to only have a +1 to hit and not damage. I simply don't allow cherry picking to that level.

[Matthew Downie]

Mysterious Stranger wrote:

I would not allow a straight +3 will save in a game I run, any more than I would allow a weapon to only have a +1 to hit and not damage. I simply don't allow cherry picking to that level.

Technically, masterwork weapons...

[Philo Pharynx]

Looking at the whole range of levels I would charge half the cost of a full cloak. So (bonus^2)*500.

A +1 cloak is 500, which also helps the low-money crowd.
Then, 2000; 4500; 8000; 12,500. These seem balanced at the levels people can get them.

[Mysterious Stranger]

Matthew Downie wrote:

Mysterious Stranger wrote:

I would not allow a straight +3 will save in a game I run, any more than I would allow a weapon to only have a +1 to hit and not damage. I simply don't allow cherry picking to that level.

Technically, masterwork weapons...

Yea a masterwork weapon is fine. What I should have stated was I would not allow a weapon a +2 or higher to hit but not to damage.