A friend of mine and myself got throwing ideas at each other and that got me asking around about a Magus using the Kensai and Eldritch Archer archetypes.
Would the pairing be glorious or would it just fizzle out?
Haven't seen the Eldritch Arher archetype yet. Didn't think the book was released.
Regardless, I would think that you would have some serious problems trying to combine the two. I'm thinking they're probably not compatible.
Especially because of
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A kensai is proficient in simple weapons and in a single martial or exotic melee weapon of his choice. A kensai is not proficient with armor or shields and suffers normal arcane spell failure chance when casting magus spells while armored.
I'm going to say it's probably a bad idea to try to combine them, even if you could legally do so.
I don't seem to be able to find this Eldritch Archer Archetype.
Where can I find it?
Heroes of the Streets
Haven't seen the Eldritch Arher archetype yet. Didn't think the book was released.
Regardless, I would think that you would have some serious problems trying to combine the two. I'm thinking they're probably not compatible.
Especially because of
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A kensai is proficient in simple weapons and in a single martial or exotic melee weapon of his choice. A kensai is not proficient with armor or shields and suffers normal arcane spell failure chance when casting magus spells while armored.I'm going to say it's probably a bad idea to try to combine them, even if you could legally do so.
Let's see:
Eldritch Archer modifies or replaces:
> Class Skills
> Arcane Pool
> Spell Combat
> Spellstrike
> Counterstrike
Kensai modifies or replaces:
> Weapon & Armor proficiencies
> Spellcasting
> Spell Recall
> Knowledge Pool
> Medium Armor proficiency
> 9th level arcana (ouch)
> Spell Recall
> Heavy Armor proficiency
> Greater Spell Recall
> Spell Access
> True Magus
So, it seems like they stack, interestingly enough. Though, as stated, given that the abilities apply chiefly to a melee weapon, it seems like an odd combination.
Hexcrafter + Eldritch Archer, on the other hand, seems like an attractive option. Getting Flight-at-will at level 5 seems like it should be desirable to just about any archer, to start off with.
He would definitely have the problem of not being proficient with bows. He would only be proficient with a crossbow or sling, which would pose serious problems. They can be overcome, but is still instantly a bad idea.
All the Kensai stuff is pretty much an antithesis to ranged stuff.
Seems like a bad idea.
Looks nice, now I only need to wait for them to actually rewrite the Eldritch Scion into something that makes sense to finally play my gunwielding magus.
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He would definitely have the problem of not being proficient with bows. He would only be proficient with a crossbow or sling, which would pose serious problems. They can be overcome, but is still instantly a bad idea.
All the Kensai stuff is pretty much an antithesis to ranged stuff.
Seems like a bad idea.
The proficiency problem can be overcome by going Elf or Half-Elf. Still not a lot of synergy between the two.
Throw Weapons are a subcategory of Ranged Weapons so they should be included.
the weapon's usefulness either in close combat (melee) or at a distance (ranged, which includes both thrown and projectile weapons)
If you blinkback it it's allright
Dagger is really the only decent one for a magus. Probably better than bows actually given the critical factor. I think I'm going to do a tiny bit of houserule to let the Mindblade work with it so I can play Gilgamesh from F/SN.
Haven't seen the Eldritch Arher archetype yet. Didn't think the book was released.
Regardless, I would think that you would have some serious problems trying to combine the two. I'm thinking they're probably not compatible.
Especially because of
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A kensai is proficient in simple weapons and in a single martial or exotic melee weapon of his choice. A kensai is not proficient with armor or shields and suffers normal arcane spell failure chance when casting magus spells while armored.I'm going to say it's probably a bad idea to try to combine them, even if you could legally do so.Let's see:
Eldritch Archer modifies or replaces:
> Class Skills
> Arcane Pool
> Spell Combat
> Spellstrike
> CounterstrikeKensai modifies or replaces:
> Weapon & Armor proficiencies
> Spellcasting
> Spell Recall
> Knowledge Pool
> Medium Armor proficiency
> 9th level arcana (ouch)
> Spell Recall
> Heavy Armor proficiency
> Greater Spell Recall
> Spell Access
> True MagusSo, it seems like they stack, interestingly enough. Though, as stated, given that the abilities apply chiefly to a melee weapon, it seems like an odd combination.
Hexcrafter + Eldritch Archer, on the other hand, seems like an attractive option. Getting Flight-at-will at level 5 seems like it should be desirable to just about any archer, to start off with.
The new FAQ on archetype stacking eliminates a lot of combinations that would previously have been legal, but I believe that all of the following combinations will work.
Beastblade/Eldritch Archer
Beastblade/Eldritch Archer/Staff Magus
Eldritch Archer/Elemental Knight (Suli)
Eldritch Archer/Elemental Knight (Suli)/Staff Magus
Eldritch Archer/Fiend Flayer (Tiefling)
Eldritch Archer/Fiend Flayer (Tiefling)/Staff Magus
Eldritch Archer/Hexcrafter
Eldritch Archer/Hexcrafter/Staff Magus
Eldritch Archer/Kapenia Dancer
Eldritch Archer/Kensai
Eldritch Archer/Myrmidarch
Eldritch Archer/Spire Defender
Eldritch Archer/Staff Magus
I agree with you regarding the Eldritch Archer/Hexcrafter. That is my favorite option at the moment. Early access to flight is great for an archer. You also won't be able to get Point Blank Master until level 11, so having those non-provoking Hexes is nice if someone closes with you.
A Beastblade/Eldritch Archer is somewhat appealing to me. The Eldritch Archer/Myrmidarch would amusingly give you two different versions of Ranged Spellstrike, but the reduced spells together with no Spell Recall probably makes stacking these a non-starter for me.
The Kensai combination doesn't seem very good to me. Losing the ability to use Spellstrike with melee attacks makes a lot of great Kensai features next to useless, and the reduced spells and loss of the Spell Recall chain are going to make sustained Eldritch Archery difficult. Plus archery-focused builds don't leave a lot of feats available for melee. If you want a switch-hitter Magus, a melee-focused Myrmidarch, with its many options for simultaneously improving melee and ranged attacks, is still the best option in my opinion.
Using Eldritch Archer to enter Arcane Archer seems viable. I haven't explored all of the synergies, but EA8/AA10/EA2 seems to be one of the better options if you have ever wanted to try all ten levels of Arcane Archer.
I guess I'm in some sort of understanding minority. I thought whatever weapon you chose for weapon focus became your dedicated weapon.
I guess I'm in some sort of understanding minority. I thought whatever weapon you chose for weapon focus became your dedicated weapon.
That mechanic work for the Warpriest, not the Kensai. Kensai chose a melee weapon at level 1 and they are stuck with it.
I've been mulling this over in my head, and it sounds ridiculously stupid - but also hilarious, so I'll be needing someone to shoot it down and tell me that it's not going to work.
...How about going Kensai with one of the blade-guns, like a Dagger Pistol or a Sword Cane Pistol?
It is a melee weapon, so it checks out. You gain EWP with the weapon, so little worries about non-proficiencies. You'll never get enough feats, granted... but your basic human character would have down all the basic feats by level 5-7, depending on whether you'll push your luck and delay amateur gunslinger for quick clear...
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Pounce, that'd really come down to your GM. The Kensai text says, "martial or exotic melee weapon"... which are specific categories on the weapons table that do not include any of those 'mixed' weapons. If your GM goes by that then all those weapons are classified as ranged (e.g. Halfling Sling-Staff) or firearms (e.g. Axe Musket).
On the other hand, the text for each of those weapons notes that they can be USED as melee weapons... so maybe some GM's would allow it.
Pounce, that'd really come down to your GM. The Kensai text says, "martial or exotic melee weapon"... which are specific categories on the weapons table that do not include any of those 'mixed' weapons. If your GM goes by that then all those weapons are classified as ranged (e.g. Halfling Sling-Staff) or firearms (e.g. Axe Musket).
On the other hand, the text for each of those weapons notes that they can be USED as melee weapons... so maybe some GM's would allow it.
One way I can see this going is 'OK, it's yours. But the cool stuff only works in melee. No spellstrike bullets.'
Well, to be fair, we are talking about the Eldritch Archer + Kensai combination - which alters Spellstrike and makes it only function with ranged weapons, so gun spellstrike would be the only option. Although I can see the "specific category" argument come down really easily, yeah. Good point.
I'm curious on the reasoning if they gave one.
I've been mulling this over in my head, and it sounds ridiculously stupid - but also hilarious, so I'll be needing someone to shoot it down and tell me that it's not going to work.
...How about going Kensai with one of the blade-guns, like a Dagger Pistol or a Sword Cane Pistol?
It is a melee weapon, so it checks out. You gain EWP with the weapon, so little worries about non-proficiencies. You'll never get enough feats, granted... but your basic human character would have down all the basic feats by level 5-7, depending on whether you'll push your luck and delay amateur gunslinger for quick clear...
They're bad, but cool. I'd totally allow it.
One thing I was thinking of was have kensai pick some sort of dagger or other thrown weapon, and attach it to a Blinkback belt, then all their iteratives can be resolved normally.