| AshenPlanet |
For Caustic Blood, the srd entry reads:
duration: 1round/level.
Any time you take piercing or slashing damage, a spray of acid...
I've interpreted this to mean that the spell can be buffed, and will last 1 round/level until you get hit, then it fires once and is done after 1 hit.
A player has argued vehemently that this spell's RAW states it should be triggered for EVERY attack that occurs during the 1 round/level period.
ie, someone attacks him 3 times in a round, then he takes this 15d6 acid spray 3 times for 45d6 that round and 21d6 the following round, and if anything else attacks him the following round, it will happen again and again until the full duration runs out...
Of course, this seems patently ridiculous, and just very badly worded by paizo, but it's hard to argue that what he says is not RAW.
Any advice on how to deal with this, or a faq qa that addresses this wording?
I did a web search and a site search here and found nothing relating to this issue.
Thanks for your help.
| Blakmane |
Your player is correct. 'Any time you', not 'The first time you' or even 'when you', explicitly implies the damages triggers any time the caster is hit until the duration expires.
It's a good spell, but hardly ridiculous. It cleans up enemies who multi-hit or a swarm of minions very effectively, but is practically useless against hard hitting enemies and doesn't help at all vs long range attacks, spells, ALL bludgeoning attacks and elemental attacks. You are fixating too much on the max potential damage and ignoring the reflex half, short duration and range and other limitations as above. By level 15 when max damage is reached, an average of 26-52 acid is not very impressive.
As an example, for a similar spell slot I could be intensify/empowering my fireball for 22d6 damage per enemy - if I hit 5 enemies I am doing 110d6 damage that round and not even anywhere near an enemy! And this still isn't anywhere near broken...
You could certainly house-rule it to work only once per turn, but I don't think it is necessary. Given how obvious the spell effect is (spraying blood), intelligent enemies are likely to avoid slashing/piercing attacks at close range on the player, and even animal intelligence level enemies are likely to be wary.
| AshenPlanet |
I'll allow it if it's agreed that this is RAW, but I disagree that this is not completely ridiculous...
This is a fifth level spell (4th for druids), which a fireball empowered at 5th level would do 15d6.
Compare 15d6 to someone getting hit 4 times by this for 60d6 in a single round, and 28d6 the following round, and more of the same if you continue to attack.
Compared to a fire shield which is only 1d6+1/level, which is the same level or 1 level lower than this spell, this makes little sense.
I'll accept it, if this is how it's supposed to work, but this does seem very very broken...
| Blakmane |
I'll allow it if it's agreed that this is RAW, but I disagree that this is not completely ridiculous...
This is a fifth level spell (4th for druids), which a fireball empowered at 5th level would do 15d6.Compare 15d6 to someone getting hit 4 times by this for 60d6 in a single round, and 28d6 the following round, and more of the same if you continue to attack.
Compared to a fire shield which is only 1d6+1/level, which is the same level or 1 level lower than this spell, this makes little sense.I'll accept it, if this is how it's supposed to work, but this does seem very very broken...
Why is someone letting themselves get hit 4 times by this in one round, if they can't handle the damage output? At any point they can just stop attacking, or use a bludgeoning weapon (like a gauntlet or shield) or ranged weapon, or trip/grapple, or just attack a different target etc etc.
You are still focussing too strongly on damage potential rather than the actual practicality of the spell. And intensified fireball is level 4 for 15d6 and has the potential to do ~2120d6 damage in a single burst in a densely crowded area... but of course, this is not the measure by which we consider the worth of the spell.
Damage options on casters are generally poor to begin with and especially when they allow reflex half AND elemental damage. The fact that this spell has high potential single target damage output doesn't change that.
| Blakmane |
I'll allow it.
It seems like every caster should use this all the time, it's usable by clerics/druids/wizards, basically every pure casting class.
How is this spell better than, say, greater invisibility, which lasts the same length, acts as a damage deterrent much more effectively and requires specific counters to deal with, at a spell level less?
Granted, it is definitely a good spell for druids! I would consider it on a battle cleric too, but I probably have more important things to do with my standard actions as a battle cleric.
I would not be casting this spell as a sorc/wizard. By mid-to-high levels I have much better things to be spending my standard actions and 5th level slots on in combat, and I don't want to be putting myself in a position to be hit even once if possible.
| CampinCarl9127 |
The spell is very good against enemies who only have melee capabilities and have no sense of self-preservation. Just like how dominate spells are very good against people with low will saves, and how fireballs are very good against people with low reflex saves. Every spell has its niche, some are bigger than others.
Also, the spell has a range of personal. There are not a lot of casters who like to be in the frontlines taking damage. Retaliation damage be damned, your wizard is going to fall fast if this is their source of DPS.
| Faran |
The spell is very good against enemies who only have melee capabilities and have no sense of self-preservation. Just like how dominate spells are very good against people with low will saves, and how fireballs are very good against people with low reflex saves. Every spell has its niche, some are bigger than others.
Also, the spell has a range of personal. There are not a lot of casters who like to be in the frontlines taking damage. Retaliation damage be damned, your wizard is going to fall fast if this is their source of DPS.
If you are in close combat and use a ranged touch (as this spell), you get hit by AoO??? right??
Rysky
|
CampinCarl9127 wrote:If you are in close combat and use a ranged touch (as this spell), you get hit by AoO??? right??The spell is very good against enemies who only have melee capabilities and have no sense of self-preservation. Just like how dominate spells are very good against people with low will saves, and how fireballs are very good against people with low reflex saves. Every spell has its niche, some are bigger than others.
Also, the spell has a range of personal. There are not a lot of casters who like to be in the frontlines taking damage. Retaliation damage be damned, your wizard is going to fall fast if this is their source of DPS.
???
It's not a ranged touch spell, it's personal.
| Faran |
You cause your blood to spray and become caustic whenever it is exposed to the air. While you and items in your possession are immune to your caustic blood, others can be badly damaged by it.
When you take damage, as a free action you may make a single ranged touch attack at any target within 30 ft. (even if it is not your turn). On a successful hit, you deal acid damage equal to 1d6 hp plus your Constitution modifier (minimum +0). If you are suffering from a bleed effect, you add double your Constitution modifier (minimum +0), and you may make one such attack at the beginning of each of your turns. After the spell has been in effect for 10 min. or after you have made a number of attacks equal to your caster level (whichever comes first), the spell ends.
Do I have the wrong spell maby???
Rysky
|
Ah, I see, this is the Caustic Blood we're talking about.
I don't know what spell you're referencing, but reading over it wouldn't provoke since it's Attack is a Free Action.
Edit: just looked it up, your's is a 3pp Caustic Blood.
| Kayerloth |
What about self harming?
let's say a battle cleric with high CON uses daggers to attack himself towards a enemy that stands in front of him.
"acidic blood spurts from your body in the direction of the opponent who inflicted the wound", will it hurt you ?
The spray will not hurt you or your equipment. It will also not go anywhere ... you are not an opponent nor can a line be drawn between a single point. Maybe if a crazy caster with project image attacked himself the spray would travel 10ft towards his shadow double :D. (or some similarly remote spell attack set up/trap) Dubious cheese for even an ally to attack you at range since it says "opponent". Not RAW or RAI to my way of thinking.
That said magical/spell research is a thing. Fire Shield is a thing, maybe Caustic Shield could be a thing (without metamagic use to change the element type)