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Here is the text for the alkali flask:
This flask of caustic liquid reacts with an ooze's natural acids. You can throw an alkali flask as a splash weapon with a range increment of 10 feet. Against non-ooze creatures, an alkali flask functions as a normal flask of acid. Against oozes and other acid-based creatures, the alkali flask inflicts double damage. Crafting this item is a DC 20 Craft (alchemy) check.
At first I thought this was a special way to fight oozes, but nearly half of the oozes have immunity to acid damage. By the rules as written the alkali flask would deal no damage against these oozes at all because the damage counts as acid, am I correct?
Against oozes without immunity to acid, how does the double damage work? is it a d6x2 (similar to how the enervation effect is made against undead)? Or is it 2d6 (similar to a critical hit with a x2 weapon)?
I'm pretty sure RAI is that against oozes it does 'alkali damage' that overrides acid immunity, but I can't see any RAW to justify that.
Double damage is a well-defined rules term. It multiplies the same way it would on a crit (except you might have a static damage bonus that doesn't multiply on a crit - that still multiplies). Note that it isn't in any way a crit, and crit immunity does nothing.
Alkaline=basic.
It's the opposite of acidic, hence the increased damage vs oozes.
It is treated as acid damage only when not used against oozes because they didn't want to introduce a new damage type.
IRL the damage caused by bases and acids is pretty similar on flesh, they just use different chemical pathways to do the damage.
As a chemical engineer, an alkali is a basic metal salt material that would react very quickly with acid. It is a caustic, but is not an acid. Caustic just means corrosive.
But Pathfinder doesn't take into account chemistry and the way in which acids and bases neutralize each other. I think in this specific case, you should treat the alkali flask as ignoring acid resistance of oozes (but only oozes).
The item says what it does, just use it as written. :D
It doesn't do acid damage, it says it functions as, not that it is, acid...
Not the same thing.
In any case, I use it as written (does double damage to oozes) and also use my knowledge of english and chemistry to say that it isn't acid, as Alkali is basic...
So yeah...
If you treat the name of the item as being relevant, then acid resistance doesn't apply.
I understand how people who don't know the difference between base and acid might still apply acid resistance to this item, but they shouldn't...
Against non-ooze creatures, an alkali flask functions as a normal flask of acid.
It is not acid damage, it just affects non-ooze creatures as if it were acid and deals double that not-acid damage to oozes.
Try not to over read things. If there are two ways to read an ability and one way works fine, and the other doesn't work at all, guess which one is the right way to read the ability.
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Against non-ooze creatures, an alkali flask functions as a normal flask of acid.It is not acid damage, it just affects non-ooze creatures as if it were acid and deals double that not-acid damage to oozes.
Try not to over read things. If there are two ways to read an ability and one way works fine, and the other doesn't work at all, guess which one is the right way to read the ability.
so does that mean that hitting a non-ooze creature with the alkali bottle would also bypass Acid resistance? so protection from Energy(Acid) wouldn't work on this item even though it "functions" like a bottle of acid?
just want to make sure I'm getting this correctly and that these weapons are effectively "untyped" damage.
Against non-ooze creatures, an alkali flask functions as a normal flask of acid.It is not acid damage, it just affects non-ooze creatures as if it were acid and deals double that not-acid damage to oozes.
Try not to over read things. If there are two ways to read an ability and one way works fine, and the other doesn't work at all, guess which one is the right way to read the ability.
so does that mean that hitting a non-ooze creature with the alkali bottle would also bypass Acid resistance? so protection from Energy(Acid) wouldn't work on this item even though it "functions" like a bottle of acid?
just want to make sure I'm getting this correctly and that these weapons are effectively "untyped" damage.
Nope, against oozes it deals damage of (not acid) type.
Otherwise it is treated as acid.Just like it says.
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Against non-ooze creatures, an alkali flask functions as a normal flask of acid.It is not acid damage, it just affects non-ooze creatures as if it were acid and deals double that not-acid damage to oozes.
Try not to over read things. If there are two ways to read an ability and one way works fine, and the other doesn't work at all, guess which one is the right way to read the ability.
so does that mean that hitting a non-ooze creature with the alkali bottle would also bypass Acid resistance? so protection from Energy(Acid) wouldn't work on this item even though it "functions" like a bottle of acid?
just want to make sure I'm getting this correctly and that these weapons are effectively "untyped" damage.
Nope, against oozes it deals damage of (not acid) type.
Otherwise it is treated as acid.Just like it says.
the wording is confusing and muddled. "Against oozes and other acid-based creatures, the alkali flask inflicts double damage." double what damage? does it double the acid damage it's functioning like against normal enemies?
I understand the RAI, that's not really the question.in the pathfinder reference site the type is listed as Acid for the weapon's stat entry. Since the description says it does double damage my assumption is double the listed acid damage on the stat block.
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateEquipment/gear/alchemicalWeapons .html
Against non-ooze creatures, an alkali flask functions as a normal flask of acid.It is not acid damage, it just affects non-ooze creatures as if it were acid and deals double that not-acid damage to oozes.
Try not to over read things. If there are two ways to read an ability and one way works fine, and the other doesn't work at all, guess which one is the right way to read the ability.
so does that mean that hitting a non-ooze creature with the alkali bottle would also bypass Acid resistance? so protection from Energy(Acid) wouldn't work on this item even though it "functions" like a bottle of acid?
just want to make sure I'm getting this correctly and that these weapons are effectively "untyped" damage.
Nope, against oozes it deals damage of (not acid) type.
Otherwise it is treated as acid.Just like it says.
the wording is confusing and muddled. "Against oozes and other acid-based creatures, the alkali flask inflicts double damage." double what damage? does it double the acid damage it's functioning like against normal enemies?
I understand the RAI, that's not really the question.
Double the listed damage of 1D6.
Sadly, the chart indicates Acid as the type, which isn't accurate.
Alkaline=Base, the OPPOSITE of acid.
If you choose to treat this as acid, go ahead, but it isn't meant to be.
As written, you could argue that the name of the item isn't relevant, and this is just a poorly made re-write of an acid flask.
I wouldn't suggest making this argument, and instead treat this RAI: 2D6 damage to oozes (untyped damage), 1D6 to anything else.
While I am confident in how it works for the most part, I'm honestly not sure how I feel it should interact with acid resistance. You get into a weird situation where a) casting resist elements (acid) on an ooze protects it, when it's immunity to acid doesn't. Or b) even magic isn't enough to protect it just because it's an ooze when the same communal resist energy protects the aberrations/humanoids (etc.) in it's party. Or c) treat it as untyped and no-one benefits from resist energy.
On balance the closest to RAW and IMO most reasonable is a) for nearly every purpose treat it as acid, except when dealing damage directly to oozes (and other acid based creatures).
I wonder what is classed as 'acid-based'? Is a black dragon 'acid-based' for example?
You raise a good point with the Black Dragon.
I would consider them to be 'acid based' (they are 'water' which acid is associated with).
Really, this item should have just been written without the damage type being called Acid at all...
*shrugs*
Magical acid resistance makes sense, if you just hand-wave a bit...
Ex acid resistance makes no sense, IMO, cause this stuff isn't acid...
Ah well.
I would go with your option a), and try not to overthink it.
I mean, it's only 1 (or 2) D6.