Psychic Spells (Still use components?)

[DiesALot]

Hey guys,

I'm a little confused.

I've designed a mesmerist, selected spells etc, and they mostly list components. As a Psychic caster, are those components still a requirement?

Someone has told me no, someone yes. Can someone here please confirm? haha

By components, I mean ingredients, like 1gp worth of gold dust or similar.

Cheers

[Kalindlara]

For psychic casters, these are replaced by objects of equivalent value with deep meaning. From Occult Adventures:

Occult Adventures, page 144 wrote:

When a spell calls for an expensive material component, a psychic spellcaster can instead use any item with both significant meaning and a value greater than or equal to the spell’s component cost. For example, if a spiritualist wanted to cast raise dead to bring her dead husband back from the grave, she could use her 5,000 gp wedding ring as the spell’s material component.

[Milo v3]

If they have no gp cost, then that component is removed. If it has a gp cost, you have to sacrifice an object that has sentimental value with you of equal or greater worth.

[DiesALot]

Milo v3 wrote:

If they have no gp cost, then that component is removed. If it has a gp cost, you have to sacrifice an object that has sentimental value with you of equal or greater worth.

That is terrible... Cause then you're never going to have items of sentimental value, because you're constantly sacrificing them. That doesn't seem right? Cause that'd strongly restrict how often I could cast spells.

I mean it's all well and good to refresh them through rest, but then I need to get another item I have sentimental value in? That's quite bad, especially if you're out exploring (like we currently are). We've been in 'savage lands' for about 3 weeks. I mean, I MIGHT be able to gain a sentimental attachment to a rock I saw the other morning?

[Milo v3]

DiesALot wrote:

That is terrible... Cause then you're never going to have items of sentimental value, because you're constantly sacrificing them. That doesn't seem right? Cause that'd strongly restrict how often I could cast spells.

I mean it's all well and good to refresh them through rest, but then I need to get another item I have sentimental value in? That's quite bad, especially if you're out exploring (like we currently are). We've been in 'savage lands' for about 3 weeks. I mean, I MIGHT be able to gain a sentimental attachment to a rock I saw the other morning?

*Shrug* I still prefer it to onyx, diamond and gold dust.

[Kalindlara]

I would rule that the sentimental value might not need to be yours, per se. For example, the locket of an assassinated duchess might have a strong psychic resonance of one sort or another.

Really makes those random art objects in adventures more important. ^_^

[DiesALot]

Kalindlara wrote:

I would rule that the sentimental value might not need to be yours, per se. For example, the locket of an assassinated duchess might have a strong psychic resonance of one sort or another.

Really makes those random art objects in adventures more important. ^_^

Sorry Milo, I didn't mean to moan about it. haha. It's just that it'll make it extremely difficult for me to begin with.

That's a good thought Kalindlara, but it's an early adventure, and a few of my spells are quite costly in their GP value. Atleast 5 of them have a value of 100gp or more.

So if I use them daily, that's 5 items.

I guess I'll need to start hoarding :D

Is the sentimental ruling either/or? Like, is it specific. Do I have to do it that way, or am I able to still use the original listed components?

[Kalindlara]

Since the text I quoted reads, "can instead use", you can use the original loisted component or a sentimental item (choosing as you cast the spell).

So, you should be fine. ^_^

[DiesALot]

Awesome. That'll make it easier. Knowing my GM though, he'll say if I use a sentimental item, it'll increase in power or some such, knowing I'll be tempted for more damage or a larger affect, but also knowing that I won't want to sacrifice something :D

[The Golux]

It does say you can make that substitution, not that you must. So using the original expensive components should still work I think. It's just that if you don't have it around, you can use something else instead.

[DiesALot]

Awesome.

Now what about casting them and people noticing? If components aren't used anymore, is there still something that can be seen? Is there still an oral/visual component?

I'm assuming not since its psychic?

If nobody can see me casting, this will open up new possibilities.

I also read something that said spells could be cast while under the influence of silence?

Thoughts?

[Kalindlara]

There's no rules saying your psychic spells can be noticed, but the art has a lot of glowing eyes/floating runes/etc. Expect some table variance there.

Since your spells lack a verbal component, they can all be cast under silence. That one's certain.

[Cwethan]

DiesALot wrote:

Awesome.

Now what about casting them and people noticing? If components aren't used anymore, is there still something that can be seen? Is there still an oral/visual component?

I'm assuming not since its psychic?

If nobody can see me casting, this will open up new possibilities.

I also read something that said spells could be cast while under the influence of silence?

Thoughts?

My take is that there is still a visual component, for the same reason that you can use Spellcraft to identify a spell with no components at all as long as you can see it being cast.

Also as Kalindlara pointed out: there's a lot of pretty art for that idea too.

[DiesALot]

Right, so if a spell only lists an oral component, it won't be noticed at all, because the mesmerist's doesn't use oral components.

But do visual components apply to every single spell?

[LazarX]

DiesALot wrote:

Milo v3 wrote:

If they have no gp cost, then that component is removed. If it has a gp cost, you have to sacrifice an object that has sentimental value with you of equal or greater worth.

That is terrible... Cause then you're never going to have items of sentimental value, because you're constantly sacrificing them. That doesn't seem right? Cause that'd strongly restrict how often I could cast spells.

Yes that's EXACTLY THE POINT. Expensive material components were designed to be limiting factor on the game's more powerful spells. In an average mid-level campaign. 5,000 gp worth of material components isn't what most folks would call trivial. Especially if you go by the rules and specify a 5,000 piece gem... not five thousand pieces worth of "residium" 4E style. Gems like that... aren't that common either.

Psychic casters can still use the standard expensive components, they have an ADDITIONAL option, they do not lose the standard options for compoenents.

[DiesALot]

Yeah, that's good. Gold/valuables isn't really a problem. Considering our level, we have a a good deal.
Can anybody direct me to some play method guides for a mesmerist? I wanna see what sort of play style I should go for.

Currently, I'm considering just cowering behind our rather large Paladin tank and do my things from there :D

Also, in regards to maintaining stares. Is this possible to do while moving? Can I maintain a stare and say move backwards at the same time?

I'd expect I'd have to do a concentration and reflex check.

But I wasn't sure. It says my stares can be maintained even when blindfolded, assuming I beat the DC20.
But what about moving?

Could I just turn around and walk back? 5 foot step?

I've also got the trick that gives me an instant move action should I activate.

[Kalindlara]

You can move however you'd like while staring, generally without needing any sort of check. Just make sure you keep them within range.

As for play style, it depends on your build/how sturdy you are. I'd default to playing like an enchanter wizard (so, paladin wall). Still, you can wear armor and have a better Hit Die.

[DiesALot]

Kalindlara wrote:

You can move however you'd like while staring, generally without needing any sort of check. Just make sure you keep them within range.

As for play style, it depends on your build/how sturdy you are. I'd default to playing like an enchanter wizard (so, paladin wall). Still, you can wear armor and have a better Hit Die.

Oh that's good news? Does it say that anywhere? Or is it just an educated thing?

Also, not sturdy :D

17AC. Definitely gotta keep that range. Closest I ever want to get is 20ft, or I'll get smoted :D

It's why I also took the trick that gives me an instant move action (15ft in my case) so I can always maintain this distance, hopefully.

[Kalindlara]

DiesALot wrote:

Kalindlara wrote:

You can move however you'd like while staring, generally without needing any sort of check. Just make sure you keep them within range.

As for play style, it depends on your build/how sturdy you are. I'd default to playing like an enchanter wizard (so, paladin wall). Still, you can wear armor and have a better Hit Die.

Oh that's good news? Does it say that anywhere? Or is it just an educated thing?

It's more that it doesn't mention any movement-related conditions that break the stare. It lists the effects of the stare and the conditions under which it's broken. Since it doesn't talk about movement affecting your ability to maintain the stare, you should be fine.

[Entryhazard]

About components, psychic casters work as if they have Eschew Material.

In the case of a costly component, the have to provide it BUT they CAN substitute it with an item of relevant meaning with the same GP value.