Mindblade questions, can we get a ruling on these?


Rules Questions

Scarab Sages

18 people marked this as FAQ candidate. 2 people marked this as a favorite.

Some questions came up when I was building a mindblade, and I'd like to see them answered. I'm mainly posting this as a call to have some FAQ clerification, but of someone else can answer them, that's cool too.

1) Can a mindblade take the following arcana: Bane blade, Devoted blade, Or Planar Hunter? Each of these arcana start off:

Quote:
Whenever the magus enhances his weapon using his arcane pool, he may. . .

(For a full list, check here: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/magus/magus-arcana

However, the mindblade's Psychic pool does NOT allow them to 'enhance' their weapon with their psychic pool (which is treated as an arcane pool), so rules as written, it does not. It seems like the intent, however, would be to instead let mindblades add those abilities to the list of abilities they can put on their weapons (essentially adding them to the list of enhancements they can take that are gained at level 5.) (And it requires spending an additional point for planar hunter)

Wording of Psychic pool class feature.:
A mindblade gains a psychic pool, similar to a normal magus's arcane pool. At 1st level, a mindblade can expend 1 point from her psychic pool as a standard action to manifest a light melee weapon of her choice, formed from psychic energy. By spending 2 points, the mindblade can manifest a one-handed melee weapon, and by spending 3 points, she can manifest a two-handed melee weapon (but not a double weapon). This psychic weapon can last indef initely, but it vanishes if it leaves the mindblade's hand. The mindblade can dismiss a held psychic weapon as a free action. When a psychic weapon vanishes, the mindblade regains the psychic energy used to create it. She can maintain only one weapon at a time.

At 1st level, a psychic weapon counts as a magic weapon of whatever type the mindblade selected, with a +1 enhancement bonus. At 3rd level and every 3 levels thereafter, the weapon's enhancement bonus increases by 1, up to maximum of +5 at 12th level. Starting at 5th level, the mindblade can add any of the weapon special abilities listed in the arcane pool class feature in place of these bonuses, although the weapon must maintain at least a +1 bonus to benefit from any weapon special abilities. At 15th and 18th levels, the weapon gains an additional +1 enhancement bonus, which the mindblade can spend only on weapon special abilities.

This ability replaces arcane pool, and counts as arcane pool for the purpose of feats, abilities, and class features.

2) What happens when a Mindblade takes the spell blending arcana?

When a mindblade takes the spell blending arcana, they replace 'wizard' with 'psychic.' (as per the psychic access class feature) however, as blending arcana reads:

Quote:
When a magus selects this arcana, he must select one spell from the wizard spell list that is of a magus spell level he can cast. He adds this spell to his spellbook and list of magus spells known as a magus spell of its wizard spell level. He can instead select two spells to add in this way, but both must be at least one level lower than the highest-level magus spell he can cast.

Mindblades do not have a spellbook, so . . . what happens? Do they add the spell to their list of spells known, or do they just get one more psychic spell on their spell list (so that they can use scrolls and wands and whatnot?)

Psychic access for reference:
At 4th level, the mindblade gains access to an expanded spell list. She adds two spells from the psychic class spell list to her magus spell list as magus spells of the same spell level. These must be spells of levels the mindblade is able to cast. At 7th, 11th, 14th, and 19th levels, she adds two more psychic class spells to her spell list, following the same restrictions.

When a mindblade takes the spell blending arcana, she gains spells from the psychic class spell list instead of the wizard spell list.

This ability replaces spell recall, knowledge pool, improved spell recall, greater spell combat, and greater spell access.


I unfortunately think it is a no to the first and I hadnt noticed the wording before, I'd jut assumed the mindblade adds the new spells as spells known. Huh, that ability is much weaker than I'd first thought.


I apologize for the question, but I am not familiar with the mind blade, is this a magus archetype?

Edit: never mind, I found it. A new archetype I was not familiar with.


Tindalen wrote:
I apologize for the question, but I am not familiar with the mind blade, is this a magus archetype?

Yup,it's sort of paizo's take on the soulknife. They are psychic spontaneous casters who can lock up pool points to manifest energy weapons. A lot of oddities with the archetype though. Defensive casting is almost impossible at early levels, eventually the mindblade can dual wield and cast a spell all at once and towards the end game they can use two handed weapons with spell combat.


I am partial regretful for derailing this conversation, the other part is excited that I may have found a new interesting option for an upcoming arcane trickster build using the new dirty tactics accomplished sneak attacker feat (I still hate that name).

It appears this is another too hastily written portion of occult adventures. Part to appears that you can add psychic spells to your spell list to allow you to add them to your spells known. It does not grant both.


Because the psychic pool ability states "counts as arcane pool for the purpose of feats, abilities, and class features." and the ability is pretty much the exact same thing as arcane pool except you're also making the weapon you're enhancing, I believe that the intent is that you can use those abilities when you're manifesting your psychic weapon.

However, since the ability never says you're enhancing the weapon, there's some room for table variation. I'd say expect 80-20 in favor of being able to make use of those arcana.

As for psychic access and spell blending, I'll replace wizard with psychic and bold the important bit:

Quote:
When a magus selects this arcana, he must select one spell from the psychic spell list that is of a magus spell level he can cast. He adds this spell to his spellbook and list of magus spells known as a magus spell of its psychic spell level. He can instead select two spells to add in this way, but both must be at least one level lower than the highest-level magus spell he can cast.

So while a spontaneous caster does not have a spellbook mechanic, they still have a list of spells known.


Johnny_Devo wrote:

Because the psychic pool ability states "counts as arcane pool for the purpose of feats, abilities, and class features." and the ability is pretty much the exact same thing as arcane pool except you're also making the weapon you're enhancing, I believe that the intent is that you can use those abilities when you're manifesting your psychic weapon.

However, since the ability never says you're enhancing the weapon, there's some room for table variation. I'd say expect 80-20 in favor of being able to make use of those arcana.

As for psychic access and spell blending, I'll replace wizard with psychic and bold the important bit:

Quote:
When a magus selects this arcana, he must select one spell from the psychic spell list that is of a magus spell level he can cast. He adds this spell to his spellbook and list of magus spells known as a magus spell of its psychic spell level. He can instead select two spells to add in this way, but both must be at least one level lower than the highest-level magus spell he can cast.
So while a spontaneous caster does not have a spellbook mechanic, they still have a list of spells known.

WOOO! Winner winner, a case where paizo thought ahead. Johnny_Devo is correct.

Scarab Sages

Johnny_Devo wrote:

Because the psychic pool ability states "counts as arcane pool for the purpose of feats, abilities, and class features." and the ability is pretty much the exact same thing as arcane pool except you're also making the weapon you're enhancing, I believe that the intent is that you can use those abilities when you're manifesting your psychic weapon.

However, since the ability never says you're enhancing the weapon, there's some room for table variation. I'd say expect 80-20 in favor of being able to make use of those arcana.

As for psychic access and spell blending, I'll replace wizard with psychic and bold the important bit:

Quote:
When a magus selects this arcana, he must select one spell from the psychic spell list that is of a magus spell level he can cast. He adds this spell to his spellbook and list of magus spells known as a magus spell of its psychic spell level. He can instead select two spells to add in this way, but both must be at least one level lower than the highest-level magus spell he can cast.
So while a spontaneous caster does not have a spellbook mechanic, they still have a list of spells known.

Hmmm, thanks for pointing that out. Though I should also point out that 'spells known' for a spontaneous caster, and spells known for a prepared caster, are different, so I can still see some very stingy DMs not rule in favor of it.

As for the arcana things, I realize that is PROBABLY the intent, but I have known some VERY strict RAW GMs who won't go for it. You never know. Remember how they 'intentionally' left off that bit on the alchemy class feature for investigators so that they can't activate wands without UMD (unlike alchemists.) So they could have meant for mindblades to be unable to take it. I dunno, I'd like to see a FAQ about it, all I'm saying.


Actually, I would say yes to the first as the Psychic pool seem to automatically be enhancing the created weapon.

1st level = +1 weapon
3rd level = +2 weapon
5th level = +2 weapon or +1 something weapon
6th level = +3 weapon or +2 something weapon or +1 something,something weapon (assuming something is a +1 enhancement)
etc....

So, by spending an extra point from the psychic pool, you could activate the addition of one of the listed arcana.

Scarab Sages

New question about the mindblade:

Occult adventures page 121 wrote:
. . . This psychic weapon can last indefinitely, but vanishes if it leaves the Mindblades hand.

Later down:

Occult Adventures page 121 wrote:
. . . Starting at 5th level, the mindblade can add any of the weapon special abilities in the arcane pool class feature in place of these bonuses, although the weapon must maintain at least a +1 bonus to benefit from any weapon special abilities.
Magus arcane pool abilities wrote:
: At 5th level, these bonuses can be used to add any of the following weapon properties: dancing, flaming, flaming burst, frost, icy burst, keen, shock, shocking burst, speed, or vorpal.

Soooooo, what happens when you put dancing on your weapon? Does it, like, fly out of your hand and immediately disappear? Does it let your weapon exist outside of your hand for a number of rounds it should be dancing for?


I do think that raw and rai for the enhancing arcana works:

The psychic pool counts as arcane pool for all arcana (class feature)
The psychic pool enchants a blade, albeit with some differences, like enchanting+summoning all rolled into one and etc. Still counts as arcane pool.
So, the requirements are met.

At a very basic level:
Does mindblade have arcane pool as far as rules are concerned? Yes (psychic pool counts as it)
Does mindblade enchants his weapon? Yes (he chooses which enchantments every time he summons)
So both requirements met.


What I would like to know is if the mindblade is refunded the point spent(s) for bane blade, devoted blade, ghost blade, etc.


And should/would the throwing magus magus arcana allow the mindblade to make ranged attacks with a manifested weapon?


I've been asking some of these questions as well to no avail. Hopefully the PDT gives us a FAQ before my PFS Mindblade retires (or dies).

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